|
|
doning
|
-- 06-05-2011 @ 4:36 PM
|
| |
After a 8 year restoration I finally got my 1937 Ford fordor 85 HP car out on the road. My dad and I drove it about 9 miles without any issues. The car on a 73 degree day was running around 160. We stopped at a friends house, left the car at idle for about 3 minutes to say hi and the temp climbed to about 195. We left his house heading home and then everything changed. The car had no power, skipped, bucked and received one back fire. We barely made it home. I removed the spark plugs and they were black! The valves were even black. I cleaned the plugs and then let the car sit until it was cool. I restarted it and it was like a brand new car again until about 3 minutes later it was right back to scr*w*ng up. Anyone have any ideas?
Also, should be concerned about my oil pressure? I'm running 10W-30. When hot I'm at 21 lbs. At idle is about 9. I'm running standard size bearings and a new Dennis Carpenter 50 lb. pump. I'm a little disappointed with the oil pressure and I hope this is sufficent. What do you think?
Thanks in advanced! Don
|
|
|
supereal
|
-- 06-05-2011 @ 5:13 PM
|
| |
The problem you describe is a classical coil failure. Incomplete combustion will make the plugs black. You don't mention whether you had the ignition checked and possibly rebuilt. If you are using an original coil, it is more than likely it is the source of the problem. If the fuel system, particularly the carb and fuel pump have not been replaced or rebuilt with alcohol resist parts, that is also in order. Your oil pressure is typical.
This message was edited by supereal on 6-5-11 @ 5:14 PM
|
|
|
doning
|
-- 06-05-2011 @ 5:21 PM
|
| |
Supereal: The carb was purchsed from Charle in NY and seems to work well. I have the mixture screws out at 1 1/2 turns. The distributor is original to the car and was rebuilt and inspected by a well-know V8 man in Marion NY. I have a spare reproduction coil that I can try.
|
|
|
ford38v8
|
-- 06-05-2011 @ 5:33 PM
|
| |
Don, On any given day anymore, you'll find your exact problem described here on the Forum. Methinks you are running rich due to a faulty power valve. The backfire may have busted the diaphragm,or Ethanol may have turned it to mush, or both. The diaphragm in your fuel pump may also have been damaged by ethanol, a dirty word here in Ford Country. All those problems described can be traced to ethanol.
Your oil is fine, as long as it isn't synthetic until the engine is properly broken in. Change oil after the first 500 miles, and again after 700 miles further. Your rings will have seated by then, and you may see a slight increase in oil pressure a a result. Your running temperature may at that time also improve, and your wife will be even more beautiful than she is already.
Alan
|
|
|
kubes40
|
-- 06-05-2011 @ 6:35 PM
|
| |
I'm siding with Supereal on this one. It sounds quite likely as if the coil is failing. Cooling down and it runs like a charm again? That tells me the carburetor is operating correctly. Start it up and it runs good until warm again? That tells me the coil is getting hot and failing.
Start with the coil  You'll be happy you did.
Don't be too confident the reproduction coil will be any good. Still, put it on there and see if the problem either goes away (great!) or changes significantly. If it does one or the other, you have the problem solved.
Oil pressure as you've been advised is fine.
Mike
|
|
|
ford38v8
|
-- 06-05-2011 @ 7:27 PM
|
| |
Mike and Super, yes, that's a good diagnosis, which I also considered, but I considered fuel the more likely cause as the engine hadn't run but 3 minutes from a cold start. The chance of total coil failure at that juncture is a bit less, I think, than fuel delivery being behind the engine failure.
The big problem with absentee diagnosis is the preciseness of the original report of failure. Not saying Don's description of the problem is less than accurate, but misunderstood facts happen first hand, let alone at the distance between two computer keyboards. We'll have to wait for the answer to this one.
Alan
|
|
|
trjford8
|
-- 06-05-2011 @ 8:34 PM
|
| |
I agree with Bob and Kube. The coil is failing when it warms up. Al you might want to re-read the original post. The poster said they drove car for 9 miles and they let it idle for 3 minutes while at a friends house. They then started home and the symptoms started showing up. It ran a lot longer than 3 minutes before the problem occurred. Classic sign of a bad coil.
Charlie in New York has an excellent reputation on rebuilding carbs. I'm sure he uses the best power valves available. If he didn't you would hear a lot about the failure of his carb work.
This message was edited by trjford8 on 6-5-11 @ 8:46 PM
|
|
|
ken ct.
|
-- 06-06-2011 @ 12:55 AM
|
| |
Charlie does excellent work,i know him well,but your idle mix screws are out too far,should only be 3/4 to 1 turn out. You are too rich. another rebuilder ken ct.
|
|
|
doning
|
-- 06-06-2011 @ 2:36 AM
|
| |
Guy's, some of you have me confused. If it was a blown power valve or bad fuel pump why would the car run like new again after the engine has cooled down? Wouldn't it act the same hot or cold? After the engine cooled down I restarted it and it took the gas very well like a race car. But after about 3 minutes into it the engine started hestitating and skipping and I was fighting with it just to get it in the garage.
|
|
|
37RAGTOPMAN
|
-- 06-06-2011 @ 4:47 AM
|
| |
doning
let it heat up and till its runs badly,then
put a ice pack on the coil, till the coil is cool, start it up and see how it runs, if it runs good the coil is defective, and send it to Skip to have rebuilt,
if it is after market coil try getting a original coil to send to him, I have a 37 and have lived though this,
hope you take my advice 37RAGTOPMAN
And while you are at it, get one of his radiator overflow valves, this will make it run cooler and you will not loose any coolant. the best $28.00 you can spend on your car,
|
|
|
doning
|
-- 06-06-2011 @ 5:04 AM
|
| |
Does Skip have a web-site?
|
|
|
TomO
|
-- 06-06-2011 @ 6:42 AM
|
| |
doning,
Stop guessing, check the spark, it should be at least 1/2 long, blue in color and make a snapping sound at idle, when the engine is at normal operating temperatures.
You can use a fuse puller or a insulated handle screwdriver to hold a plug wire near a head nut. I use a small screwdriver with a blade that is just wide enough to fit into the spark plug wire end.
Your oil pressure is sufficient. Changing to a 20W-50 oil will raise it slightly, while still giving proper lubrication in the hot weather.
You may have your idle set too high or a vacuum leak requiring the idle screws to be set out as far as you have them set. Get a vacuum gauge and check your vacuum.
Tom
|
|
|
JM
|
-- 06-06-2011 @ 7:42 AM
|
| |
You never mentioned which model number carburetor you are using. I believe a blown power valve would be more characteristic of a model 94 which would not be correct for a '37 85hp engine. Any of the Guy's rebuilding carbs, Charlie NY, Ken, CT, Uncle Max, all know what today's gas does to the internal components in these carbs and I'm sure they all use alcohol resistant parts. As others have said, and I agree, send an original coil to Skip Haney in Punta Gorda, FL and let him rebuild it with modern insulated parts/components. Also, find a known good condenser and try that in place of your existing one. Check the voltage supply available to the coil. I don't remember the exact value but it should be less than 6V or around 4.5V. I don't know what plugs you are using but I have heard bad reports on the Champion H10's that are made in Mexico. Let us know what you find that corrects your problem.
JM
|
|
|
doning
|
-- 06-06-2011 @ 9:00 AM
|
| |
I will. Thank you!
|
|
|
supereal
|
-- 06-06-2011 @ 10:00 AM
|
| |
skip@fordsrus.com is his email. Phone (941)637-6698. For my money, his rebuilt coils are much better than many of the repros. Poor ignition nearly always results in black spark plugs which, in turn, produce the problems outlined. Underhood heat isn't always the sole producer of coil problems. Shorted turns, due to compromised insulation, increase current draw and can cook a coil even when the windings don't show an open circuit. In have doubts that the carb is at fault, as Charlie Schwendler is an old pro. We set the idle needles with a vacuum gauge, and the number of turns varies with each engine to achieve a smooth idle and resolve any lag when coming off idle.
|
|
|
doning
|
-- 06-06-2011 @ 10:44 AM
|
| |
Thanks Supereal.
|
|
|
supereal
|
-- 06-06-2011 @ 12:43 PM
|
| |
You are welcome. Input voltage to the coil with the points closed should be about 3.5 volts. When the points are open, you will read battery voltage of 6+ volts. As for spark plugs, the H-10s are noted for fouling. I use Champion RJ14YC plugs instead, with the gap set at .028. They have a long snout that tends to burn clean. I know that Champion has been getting a bad rap, but I haven't had any problems with them.
|
|
|
40ford
|
-- 03-11-2012 @ 1:49 PM
|
| |
Everyone is so quick to condemn the coil when spark is lost or weak when hot. I've found more times than not, it's a bad Condenser. When I check with a condenser checker, I often find them testing good until I heat them up a bit. Then they start leaking (electrically, not physically). A lot of guys change the coil, which has a condenser already attached and ready to go, and the car runs good. That means it was either the coil OR the condenser. The late Doc Shull told me about troublesome condensers when hot many years ago and as usual, he was right. AND a LOT of new condensers are marginal or no good right out of the box! There are a couple of well-known suppliers who sell this foreign-made cr*p and it's tough to figure out who sells good ones.
|
|
|
supereal
|
-- 03-11-2012 @ 6:41 PM
|
| |
That is exactly why we reuse a condenser, rather than risk a repro. We have a box full of old coils that will run only a few minutes before failing. Sometimes the resistor has been bypassed in the mistaken belief that it will make the the spark hotter. It actually causes more rapid failure as the coil heats up. Hot start problems are rarely due to the carb, unless the float is set too high or the power valve leaks enough to drain the bowl in a matter of minutes.
|
|
|
40 Coupe
|
-- 03-12-2012 @ 5:50 AM
|
| |
I agree it could be either the condenser or coil or both. Try a NAPA FA49 on and see if that solves the problem before taking the coil off and having it rebuilt. I also agree the carburetor idle mixture adjustment screws are out TOO far. about 3/4 of one turn (for a single carb). If when the car finally idles correctly and you can do a carb adjustment if the adjustment screws do not operate correctly at <1 turn, you may want to return the carb for repair.
|
|
|
TomO
|
-- 03-12-2012 @ 7:56 AM
|
| |
I have a Snapon coil tester and find that both the coil and condenser will fail when hot, but the coil fails more often. This tester checks the spark with a built in condenser or using the one on the car.
The aftermarket condenser's are the most likely to fail due to a cold solder joint where the grounding tab is soldered to the case.
Tom
|
|
|
drkbp
|
-- 03-13-2012 @ 6:52 AM
|
| |
Hello doning,
Lots of good advice on this thread.
I drive my '35 Cabriolet quite a bit and one of the parts I carry in my car is a spare coil and condenser. Some years ago I bought one of the coil adaptors from the vendors for the three screw distributors. It lets you run a regular 6-volt coil and condenser on the '33-'36 distributors. They are also available for the two screw distributors, '37-'41. I haven't seen one for the 68 Distributors. New coil and condenser is less than thirty dollars at the auto parts or Tractor S. The adaptors are less than 45 dollars.
To me it is sort of like a spare tire. As long as I have it, I don't need it. Screw driver and a pair of pliers and you can change it on the side of the road.
Plus, if you loose the resistor, you can "cook" a perfectly good early 150 dollar coil if you bypass the resistor to get home. The adaptor gets you home in that case because you can bypass the resistor and go straight to the 6-volt coil with its internal resistor.
Only trouble I have had with the 97's is trash in the needle valve, gas all over it. In line filter between fuel pump and carb solves that. One of the filters in the car too. Beats waiting for AAA or a trailer.
Ken in Texas
This message was edited by drkbp on 3-13-12 @ 6:53 AM
|
|
|
supereal
|
-- 03-13-2012 @ 11:07 AM
|
| |
Most performance problems with the Stromberg carb are due to a poor fit or adjustment of the throttle plates. Any leakage around the plates will cause the bleed holes above and below the plates to lose vacuum and interfere with the idle delivery. Same is true of a badly worn throttle shaft or shaft openings, in the carb body. These problems led to the replacement of the 97 with a later Holley unit.
This message was edited by supereal on 3-14-12 @ 10:04 AM
|
|