| carcrazy | -- 11-15-2009 @ 5:51 PM |
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If I want to convert the car to a 12V negative ground electrical system using an alternator what changes do I have to make to the ignition and starting systems? I want to use the original type 1938 Ford distributor (but with a remote mount coil) and starter motor. Can starters be rewound to convert them from 6V positive ground to 12V negative ground? Where is the best place to have the starter rebuilt to accomplish this?
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| trjford8 | -- 11-15-2009 @ 8:09 PM |
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Basically it is a fairly easy conversion. Your starter will work without any modification.Your distributor will also be fine, but you must use a 12 volt coil along with a resistor. You will need to have a reducer on your gauges. The amp guage will work with 6 or 12 volts, but you must reverse the direction of the wire that passes through the loop on the back of the gauge. You will need to use the reducer on the gas and oil gauges. If you have a 38 the temp gauge is mechaniocal(red liquid), so no need to worry about this one. You can purchase a volt drop at the local auto parts store. You will use the reducer that Ford used in the early 60's to mid 70's on their gauges. At Napa Auto Parts the part # is IR-1. The part # for Standard Ignition Parts brand is VRC-604. Lastly you need to change all the bulbs in the car.
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| carcrazy | -- 11-15-2009 @ 8:34 PM |
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Thank you. That is most helpful.
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| TomO | -- 11-16-2009 @ 7:15 AM |
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While a 6 volt starter will work on 12 volts, I would recommend for reliability that you have your starter converted. Your 6 volt starter will spin at approximately twice the speed with 12 volts. Your starter will engage at speeds higher than it was designed for. That said, unless you are installing air conditioning, there is no reason to change to 12 volts. A properly maintained vehicle will perform satisfactorily with its original 6 volt system. Tom
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| admiral1960 | -- 11-16-2009 @ 8:41 AM |
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The web site below is for a company that makes 15 & 20 amp voltage reducers. I have one in my 35 that drives my original radio and gauges. It could also drive a heater fan and ?? http://www.lincolnzephyr.us/gpage2.html Allen E Michler AW1, USNR (10 yrs) LTC, TC, USAR (29 yrs)
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| supereal | -- 11-16-2009 @ 8:56 AM |
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Resistance type voltage reducers usually don't have the capacity to run the heater fan motor. They are dependent upon a non-fluctuating load because they are not internally regulated.
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| admiral1960 | -- 11-17-2009 @ 8:40 AM |
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This unit is not a resistor type voltage reducer. I believe it is a power transister controlled by a voltage regulator (all solid state). The package is mounted on a good looking aluminum heat sink that is easily mounted. check out the web site above - I think you will like what you see Allen E Michler AW1, USNR (10 yrs) LTC, TC, USAR (29 yrs)
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| G Tosel | -- 11-17-2009 @ 10:56 PM |
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I have no problem with the change from 6 volts to 12 volts, but years ago when I began my project, the only problem I had with my 46 Ford was that a 6 volt battery could not maintain enough cranking power to start, especially when hot. My 36 Ford has a solution to that problem by including two 6 volt batteries with a switch that only places 12 volts (two 6 volt batteries in series) when I push the start button. All of the 6 volt power and generator operates the two 6 volt batteries in parallel allowing only 6 volts to everything else. I finished the car in 2002 after 30 years in resurrection and this system has worked well. Just a different point of view. Thanks. Gary Tosel
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| supereal | -- 11-18-2009 @ 5:41 AM |
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That is certainly a better setup than the common resistance type, but be sure that the load rating, in amps, is sufficient to handle both the running and starting load of the fan motor. Early units had rather small capacity due to the SCR's and Zener diodes commonly used.
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| TomO | -- 11-18-2009 @ 7:44 AM |
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If your car is in good shape, you should not need more than a 6 volt battery to start it. Some of the items to check if you are having trouble with cranking speed are battery capacity (sulfated or not fully charged), battery cable size (undersized 12 volt cables will not carry enough current), poor grounding (clean ground connections to the frame and body, starter connection to oil pan should not be painted ) and a starter with worn bushings. The Optima battery gives more cranking power than the replacement lead acid batteries being sold for our cars and gives the added advantage of not causing acid damage to the battery tray and surrounding metal. Tom
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| admiral1960 | -- 11-18-2009 @ 7:49 AM |
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Supposidly it will put out 20 amps which should be enogh to run all old FORD acessories. Allen E Michler AW1, USNR (10 yrs) LTC, TC, USAR (29 yrs)
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| carcrazy | -- 11-18-2009 @ 9:09 AM |
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I like 12 volts because it allows the use of brighter quartz halogen headlights and tail and stop lights that show up better to following cars.
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| JebNY | -- 11-18-2009 @ 4:40 PM |
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I haven't seen 6 volt halogen headlights but the taillight bulbs are available and not badly priced. I have them on one of my Crosleys and they are a lot brighter for about the same current. 6 volt LED tail lamps are also available but you need to get the right ones, some are brighter but a lot of them are not enough brighter to be worth the trouble. They draw so little current you sometime have to add a small resistor to get the turn signal blinker to work, that leave more amps for other things. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake
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| ford38v8 | -- 11-18-2009 @ 10:51 PM |
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Jeb, Halogens and 6V just don't go together, period. The problem is that Halogens demand so much juice that the wiring can't carry the load, and the bulbs are dim as a result. In addition, all other circuits are affected. Try this on your Crosley, if you don't believe me: While driving at night, step on your brakes to light your halogen stoplights. You'll see your headlights go dim as a candle, and your ammeter needle peg the discharge pin. You mays also feel or hear your engine miss for lack of juice to the coil. Alan
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| 51f1 | -- 11-19-2009 @ 3:24 AM |
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I agree with TomO. A properly maintained 6-volt system will work just fine. You don't need 12 volts unless you want to install modern accessories. Richard
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| JebNY | -- 11-19-2009 @ 4:49 AM |
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ford38v8, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I have done your experiment years ago and you were right the halogen current draw was high, I had a set of headlights installed in a 12 volt jeep with marginal wiring and where it had ok regular lights the halogen were a dim glow. The new style halogen have roughly the same draw as tungsten and are much brighter. Here is where I got my taillights. http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/page2.html Jim... 1950 F1 Stake This message was edited by JebNY on 11-19-09 @ 4:49 AM
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| supereal | -- 11-19-2009 @ 8:12 AM |
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We tried a set of Bob Drake halogen headlight a long time ago and found, as mentioned above, that a 6 volt wiring and charging system isn't capable of making them any brighter, if at all, than the original sealed beams. It is encouraging to know that, finally, 12 volt LED headlights have come on the market. We hope that 6 volt versions will follow. LEDs are the answer to brighter (and safer) lights than halogens without expensive modifications.
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| dann | -- 11-21-2016 @ 3:39 AM |
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I'd like to know more about this set-up,my 36 turns over slow,new battery&starter, the right cables,still no starting.you can email me at dann_campbell@yahoo.com
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| TomO | -- 11-21-2016 @ 10:07 AM |
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Dann, you are a new member and I welcome your participation in this Forum. Most of us would prefer that when you have a problem that you start a new thread, and keep it updated until the problem is resolved. The most common cause of a slow starter is resistance in the circuit from the battery to the starter. To check for this connect a voltmeter COM or black lead to the NEG battery post and the + or red lead to the terminal on the starter. Operate the starter with the ignition off and read the voltmeter. It should read 0.3 volts or less. If it reads more than that, move the red lead to the next connection toward the battery, this should be the starter switch or solenoid, repeat the test and look for a reading of 0.2 or lower. If it is more than that, the cable from the battery should be replaced. When you have determined that the cable and connections on the NEG side are all good, check out the grounding circuit by connecting the red lead of the meter to the POS post and the black lead to one of the starter mounting bolts. Operate the starter and read the meter. It should show 0.1 volts or less. If it shows more, remove the starter from the oil pan and clean the mounting surface of the starter and the pan. Repeat the test. If it is still more than 0.1 volts replace the ground cable from the motor to the body and the ground cable from the battery to the frame. Make sure that the area where the ground cable is connected is clean, with no rust or corrosion. You said that you have a new battery and that is the next thing to check. Connect the voltmeter across the posts of the battery and operate the starter. The volt meter should read above 5.0 volts. If it is less than that, your battery does not have enough power. If all of the above tests are satisfactory, either your starter is bad or the engine is too tight. If you need more help with this problem, please open a new thread and let us know what tests were performed and the results. Tom
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| CharlieStephens | -- 11-21-2016 @ 12:06 PM |
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Dann, I hope you take Tom’s suggestion about starting a new thread in a positive manner as I am sure that was the way it was intended. I have another one, also well intended, to add to it. When you request information be sent to your email you and everyone else loses. When compared to posting you lose because nobody will see it and correct the response if it is wrong (we all make mistakes). Other people will not see the answer and use it as a springboard for additional ideas. People won’t respond to you assuming someone has already done so. Everyone else loses since they will not be able to benefit from the information. Also I suggest you add your general location to your profile. Someone with the answer may live in the same town. Welcome to the site. Charlie Stephens
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| GK1918 | -- 11-22-2016 @ 1:36 AM |
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Back in early 1960s my father used a mid fiftys Ford 12 generator /regulator for a 1950 F6 which I have today. Same 6vt starter and never touched it all these years. Its running as fast as you hit the button, so thats my proof.....sam
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| JayChicago | -- 11-22-2016 @ 7:28 AM |
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Re 6 volt Halogens bulbs: Could it be that today's Halogen bulbs do not draw the excessive current like the earlier Halogens did? My 1940 came to me with 6 volt Halogen headlights bulbs installed, and no problem with too much current draw. No dimming, even at idle without voltage increase from the generator output. (The car does have a new strong battery, and I have put contact cleaner and a wire brush to every connector) Now I tried a Halogen tail/stop light bulb (just one tail light on my Standard model). No problem. So I am running with Halogens front and rear, can drive at night without any problem. This message was edited by JayChicago on 11-22-16 @ 9:28 AM
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