| 46fordnut | -- 05-28-2011 @ 5:13 PM |
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here is a good one ...if my car lays around for more then a day i have to prime the carb 6 times then it stays running. fuel pump issues??? runs good other then that. car is 1946 ford and is a flat 8 with glass bowl pump. then i had it out tuesday and drove fine. shut it off did not restart until 15 later.when it does this it does have spark. temp gauge was in the middle. 100 horse running wild This message was edited by 46fordnut on 5-28-11 @ 6:47 PM
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-28-2011 @ 7:06 PM |
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Sounds like a Ford, all right. A hot start is usually more successful if you press and hold the gas pedal to the floor while you crank. The reason is, you open the throttle plates to allow more air, which will suck less gas. Otherwise, you flood the engine if you pump it. The same applies whenever you smell gas: To clear a flooded engine, press, hold, and crank. Alan
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| 46fordnut | -- 05-28-2011 @ 7:20 PM |
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never had this trouble always started fine regardless of engine temp. 100 horse running wild
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-28-2011 @ 7:49 PM |
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OK, a bit more information to go on! The two symptoms, many pumps cold, and no start warm (good spark), may be due to a bad economizer valve. This will cause leak down, which drains the carb over time, but will also flood the engine for a hot start. A sure test for the economizer (power) valve is to remove it and attempt to draw a suction on it to your tongue. It has a one way valve, so if it won't stick one way, try it the other way. A related question for others... When replacing the economizer, some don't fit due to the radius at the bottom of the threads. Instead of machining the valve to fit, there should be enough meat on the carb to countersink for clearance. Whatcha think? Alan
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| supereal | -- 05-28-2011 @ 7:53 PM |
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Is your coil an original? Failure to restart when hot is often the result of an overheated coil, which reduces spark until it cools a bit. This is aggravated by low voltage due to a hot starter.
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| 46fordnut | -- 05-28-2011 @ 8:11 PM |
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coil does say ford on it brown plastic in color. but i still dont get if it cold and wont start unless fuel is added what this would have anything to do with it. hot start is only sometimes. cold start is all the time. if i start it every other day its fine. lets say if it sits for a week is when the cold start is trouble. can it be the battery is week turning the engine to slow to pull fuel from the tank? last battery voltage was 6.09. 6 volt system. 100 horse running wild
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-28-2011 @ 10:11 PM |
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46, to clarify, we understand that your spark is good on a hot start, so we can eliminate any electrical malfunction. We can now confine the question to the fuel/air ratio. Your car starts OK after a period of one or two days, but requires additional pumping if it isn't started for a week. This tells me that your carb is slowly losing the gas reserve from its bowl, and as a result, your engine is starved for fuel. Your economizer valve, if faulty, will leak causing that effect. Your additional pumping fills the bowl, allowing the engine to start. The same leak from the same economizer valve can also show itself as a flooding situation when hot, causing your engine to not start as it normally should. Your engine will not start due to an imbalance of the air/gas ratio required. Going back to your question of possible weak battery, that is always a possibility, regardless of anything else. All batteries will fail, it's just a question of when. If your battery is living on borrowed time, replacement is called preventive maintenance. If it fails before replacement, it can be called "Just my dumb luck". Alan
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| 46fordnut | -- 05-29-2011 @ 6:08 AM |
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i dont pump the gas pedal i just add fuel to the carb it will fire up run for a second or two then stall. i repete this a couple of times then it will stay running . i do this cold. hot i did not try this. 100 horse running wild
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| supereal | -- 05-29-2011 @ 8:20 AM |
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Every old Ford I've owned started differently. My '47 would't start without a shot of starting fluid after sitting for a long time. After checking everything, I came to the conclusion that if it started after priming, it wasn't getting enough fuel to run. Almost all my other cars flooded easily, I was concerned about pumping the gas before starting. Finally, I pumped it several times, and it popped right off. I don't do it, or have to, when the engine is warm. You have to try different approaches to learn the quirks of each car.
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| 46fordnut | -- 05-29-2011 @ 1:36 PM |
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i use to just set choke and she would fire right up. now the only way is to dump fuel in to carb 6 times then she will stay running. last time this happened i rebuilt the fuel pump and it worked fine. i think it maybe the new fuels eating the rubber dia. last time i rebuilt the the pump was over 2 years ago. 100 horse running wild
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-29-2011 @ 2:27 PM |
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46, test your economizer valve in the manner as I advised you earlier. I'm confident that you will find your problem. Alan
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| 46fordnut | -- 05-29-2011 @ 2:33 PM |
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ok so if this is the trouble can i get just the vavle? or do i have to buy the whole car kit.found some dirt in sediment bowl. might this cause the issue? empty fuel bowl takes alot of time to fill up in fuel pump primed carb 5 times then it ran on its own. 100 horse running wild This message was edited by 46fordnut on 5-29-11 @ 4:08 PM
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-29-2011 @ 4:44 PM |
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46, Yes, you can buy the Economizer valve separately. Ask if the base is compatible with the older carburetors. You may have two separate problems, as now we see that your glass bowl is empty and takes a long time to fill up. I must have confused your post with another, as I thought you had confirmed your pump to be good. A new pump is in order, and you should replace the flex hose while you're at it. Alan
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| 46fordnut | -- 05-29-2011 @ 5:46 PM |
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ok thats what ill do. any ideas who i should buy from? i normally use mac's 100 horse running wild
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| TomO | -- 05-29-2011 @ 6:14 PM |
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46fordnut, check out my answer in your Milestone post. It will tell you how to check your fuel pump and fuel line. Tom
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-29-2011 @ 6:32 PM |
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46, Look in the V8 Times for the flex hose. This is of a quality that is fuel resistant, and looks original as well. I wouldn't spend the extra for the one with the one way valve, but it wouldn't hurt. I've heard that a modern AirTeX fuel pump is also fuel resistant, but cannot confirm. They are available from NAPA Auto Parts, and also online from same. This is a long web address, so if you can't cut & paste, just start from scratch with NAPA Auto Parts: https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=AFP571_0252758381&An=599001+101948+50026+2026066 This is the pump with the glass bowl, part number AFP 571, the same as is on your car now. Alan
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-29-2011 @ 6:45 PM |
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46, and everyone reading this: Here were two different posts by the same V8er, both dealing with the same question. The first post was answered most expertly by TomO, and then comes the second post with the same question. Please, folks, give us a break and post your additional concerns on the same question to that same post rather than opening a new post. Alan
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| TomO | -- 05-30-2011 @ 7:55 AM |
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Alan, please don't refer to me as an expert. An ex is a has been, I am that. A spert is a drip under pressure. I have not been under pressure since I retired. Tom
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| supereal | -- 05-30-2011 @ 4:24 PM |
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Tom: I think "Merc-O-Master" would be a better title, as you are the "go to" guy on that branch of the Ford family tree.
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| 46fordnut | -- 05-30-2011 @ 4:50 PM |
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let my car sit over night. it stated right up no trouble. needed light choke.. could it just be that all this time it was just some dirt was the issue in the fuel pump bowl. has great gas pedal response . well i guess ill let it sit for 2 days and see how i starts then. once again thank you guys here for all the help. 100 horse running wild
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-01-2011 @ 5:13 PM |
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ok....i did the the car sit for two days today was 94 degrees in new jersey . it started no choke stalled out set full choke part flooded with gas . got it running good then i shut off. it was at running temp. did restart once. ran it for few seconds . i shut it off again to see if it would restart..i did not . add fuel still no start. let sit again for a half hour did restart. possable flooding? or fuel pump below pressure or like someone said here bad power valve in carb??? never blows black smoke or runs rich. runs fine till you shut it off and try to restart. i'm lost with witch way to go to first. i was thinking of power valve replacement first and go from there. 100 horse running wild This message was edited by 46fordnut on 6-1-11 @ 7:22 PM
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| supereal | -- 06-02-2011 @ 9:45 AM |
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A leaky power valve would usually cause flooding only if left alone long enough. Without the engine running to replenish the gas in the carb, it shouldn't be enough to cause hard starting. The next step is to determine both the fuel pressure at the carb, and the fuel quantity delivered as the engine is cranked. From here, it looks as if the carb runs dry, particularly in high ambient temps, which aid heat soak and fuel boiling. None of the old Fords I've had needed choking. Next time it won't start, give it a whiff of starting fluid. If it kicks off, you have confirmed a fuel supply problem.
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-02-2011 @ 6:58 PM |
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i added gas down the barrel of the carb. try to start engine did not run. if what you say works what should i do to fix the issue? rebuild the fuel pump? seems to take some time to fill the glass bowl on fuel pump if i drain all the fuel from it. needed to prim carb at least 5 times before it was full. 100 horse running wild
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 06-03-2011 @ 5:51 AM |
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46FORDNUT. try using a different fuel supply, like a gas tank from a outboard motor, using new gas, make sure it has no oil mix in it, this way you would out rule the fuel from front to rear,start it let it run shut off,try when colf to see if it starts,also I would check the glass bowl gasket to make sure it is sealed, if leaks air in, the fuel might return to the tank and causes air in enter the fuel line, if it starts hard cold,.it should mean there is no fuel at that time, check the flex line for leaking air in, and the fitting on it for any possible causes for failure. my 3 cents 37RAGTOPMAN
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| TomO | -- 06-03-2011 @ 8:38 AM |
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46fordnut, did you check out your fuel pump as described in your milestone post? that procedure will isolate your problem,. Tom
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-03-2011 @ 5:48 PM |
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dont have pressure gauge . but i will get one . what should it read? 100 horse running wild
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| supereal | -- 06-03-2011 @ 6:11 PM |
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Fuel pressure shouldn't exceed 3 to 4 pounds, but remember that pressure doesn't mean the quantity is sufficient.
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-03-2011 @ 7:43 PM |
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yes, you could have good pressure but not enough volume. i used a cork gasket for my pump bowl, not rubber it tends to dry over time 100 horse running wild
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| shogun1940 | -- 06-03-2011 @ 9:51 PM |
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get the car running , warm it up good,shut it off and open the trottle plates and look down at the bottom of manifold, see if there is a lot gas in the manifold. leave the throttle open and cover it with a rag or plastic , go back in 15 miutes and look for gas in the manifold, if there is then you have a leak
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-04-2011 @ 6:03 PM |
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if there is not then i issues elsewhere. like not enough from pump or leaking back to tank or air leak in system? 100 horse running wild
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| BrianCT | -- 06-05-2011 @ 7:23 AM |
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I just read through this whole topic and have to jump in. Put in a good power valve first. That should stop the flooding and your carb gas bowl should then stay full for many days and will have plenty of gas to get you going without a prime.
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-05-2011 @ 3:36 PM |
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just took carb float bowl drain screw out and not much fuel came out...i guess i just found the issue. put new power valve . now battery dead. . i feel like sometimes i just cant win. it still took about 7 times of prime to get the car to run on its own. still might have pump issues??? 100 horse running wild This message was edited by 46fordnut on 6-5-11 @ 6:52 PM
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-07-2011 @ 6:22 AM |
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it sat for one day and it fired up no choke. seem to have been fixed as far as i can tell.. when i took carb off car the base gasket was wet with fuel,put new power valve in place.. runs at idle fine and feels strong. now just need to find i issue with head lights. they work when they want to. switch might be bad . 100 horse running wild
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| Norm | -- 06-07-2011 @ 1:36 PM |
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In my experience, after you confirm that the switch is OK the first thing to look for is poor grounding somewhere in the headlight circuit. A bad ground can behave somewhat intermitently just as a bad switch might.
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| supereal | -- 06-07-2011 @ 2:07 PM |
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I created a headlight relay unit to overcome the usual "yellow" lights. In most cases, at 6 volts, by the time the power goes thru the main switch, then the dimmer, and all the bullet connectors, there is not enough "juice" left for the headlights. This is particularly true if you are running high wattage lights, such as halogen. If you think this is the way to go, I'll re-post the diagram.
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-07-2011 @ 5:27 PM |
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my headlights are the 6 volt. not the high end. i was thinking of putting 6.5 volt headlights. does you idea help with stock 6 volt headlights?? 100 horse running wild
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| supereal | -- 06-07-2011 @ 5:57 PM |
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The average system voltage in "six" volt systems is just over seven volts with the engine running, so six and a half bulbs likely wouldn't produce much, if any, improvement. Six volt headlights have plenty of illumination if fully powered. If you run a jumper directly from the battery to the bulb, you can observe the amount of light without the loss thru the wiring.
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-07-2011 @ 6:50 PM |
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so if you lose the voltage due to the path the voltage must follow ....how would this relay fix this issue..dim headlights seem to be like this even when new. and just how much does this relay cost and how hard is it to install? and does it work with the stock six volt headlight? 100 horse running wild This message was edited by 46fordnut on 6-7-11 @ 8:06 PM
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| TomO | -- 06-08-2011 @ 7:19 AM |
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6.5 volt head lights are the current standard sealed beam. The manufacturer specifies the higher voltage because as Super said, you have 7 volts at the battery when running. 46fordnut, your problem of intermittent lights is probably due to corrosion in the dimmer switch or possibly the head light switch. Check the voltage drop going to the dimmer switch and from the dimmer switch to the headlights, by connecting your voltmeter common or - lead to the NEG post of the battery and the + lead to the input of the dimmer switch. Turn on your lights and read the voltage displayed on the meter. This is the amount of voltage that is being lost through connections and the light switch. It should be less than 2/10ths of a volt. Move the meter lead to the output side (High or low beam) and repeat the test. Repeat again for the other beam setting. The dimmer switch can be cleaned and the contacts coated with a corrosion inhibiting grease. Tom
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-08-2011 @ 11:38 AM |
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newer dimmer switch in the car. headlight switch sometimes does not work.. need to jiggle the handle to have the lights and dash lights work. 100 horse running wild
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| TomO | -- 06-08-2011 @ 2:48 PM |
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Just because the dimmer switch is new, doesn't mean that the contacts are not corroded. Dimmer switches to fit your car probably have been sitting in a warehouse for years. Car manufacturers stopped using the floor mounted switch back in the late 70's. That is more than 30 years ago. Your headlight switch sounds like it needs to be replaced. Tom
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-08-2011 @ 3:49 PM |
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yes i have to do so...napa had my dimmer switch brand new. i also need on new head light pig tail on the drivers side wrong size wire . need right gauge wire. 100 horse running wild This message was edited by 46fordnut on 6-8-11 @ 3:50 PM
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-10-2011 @ 7:02 PM |
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what should a fully charged 6 volt battery be at? mine wont go over 6.10 volts. 100 horse running wild
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| FlatheadTed | -- 06-12-2011 @ 3:06 AM |
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r This message was edited by FlatheadTed on 6-12-11 @ 3:34 AM
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| FlatheadTed | -- 06-12-2011 @ 3:22 AM |
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r This message was edited by FlatheadTed on 6-12-11 @ 3:32 AM
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| FlatheadTed | -- 06-12-2011 @ 3:23 AM |
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r This message was edited by FlatheadTed on 6-12-11 @ 3:31 AM
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| FlatheadTed | -- 06-12-2011 @ 3:26 AM |
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r This message was edited by FlatheadTed on 6-12-11 @ 3:31 AM
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| FlatheadTed | -- 06-12-2011 @ 3:34 AM |
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As I see it you have 2 problems here .one is the Fuel pump needs going over ,check the push rod ,possible fit a primer. boat/electric ,and 2 check all your electrical connections to the coil .change the coil and get the distributor set up on a machine , Regarding the power valve on a Stromberg the valve sits down low in the fuel so you will not get leak down since it would need to travel up hill ,But you may get a richer mixture while running ,Not sure if this would apply to a Ford /Holly
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| ken ct. | -- 06-12-2011 @ 5:05 AM |
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All your going to get is a Chinezze made pump. Buy a quality rebuilt one from one of the barners that rebuild them. BTW a glass bowl pump is wrong for a 46. They came out in 47. ken ct.Top cover gaskets in rubber are N/G either.
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| supereal | -- 06-12-2011 @ 10:43 AM |
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After getting a batch of extremely poor ignition points, we stopped buying from Mac's. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they may also have been cheated by their supplier. Same was true of an order of hub grease seals. It is obvious something or things are wrong. My '47 sat in storage from last October until last week. I filled the carb with the electric standby pump, hit the accelerator a couple of times, and it took right off, thanks to the Optima battery. I suspect one or more components of your engine are not up to the job. Without someone actually on hand to properly diagnose the problem(s), it is likely all of this guesswork is just running you in circles.
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-12-2011 @ 5:06 PM |
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yes. but, i'm heading in the right way . i did run much better after new power valve . i just have some bad connections to deal with at the battery and need new starter relay. mine stuck in the crank position . top off the battery and it should be ready to go 100 horse running wild
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| 46fordnut | -- 06-13-2011 @ 4:29 PM |
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i only use a cork bowl seal on the glass . 100 horse running wild This message was edited by 46fordnut on 6-13-11 @ 6:01 PM
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