| ford38v8 | -- 05-21-2011 @ 9:51 PM |
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I know of a restoration in which the owner collected all of the black parts from under his hood and took them all to be powder coated. That sure was a snazzy car. The results were very impressive. And very incorrect. All those parts that had originally been dipped in a thin paint were now thickly coated in a smooth high gloss black powder coat that would be impervious to anything but a Concourse Judges keen eye. Just a friendly reminder: Over-Restoration is costly to do, and even more costly to undo. Alan
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| supereal | -- 05-22-2011 @ 4:18 PM |
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I certainly agree with that, Alan. I'm not that impressed with powder coating, anyway, as every time I tried it, I was unhappy with both the cost and results. I was told that preparation is the key to getting a good job, but we deal with old parts, which are virtually impossible to fully remove all traces of contamination.
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| 40guy | -- 05-22-2011 @ 6:16 PM |
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I always pre-bake everything I powder coat. This "cooks" out the impurities from the metals pores and gives a fantastic finished product. I do my own powder coating and love it.
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| ctfordguy | -- 05-22-2011 @ 7:45 PM |
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Hi 40Ford, Would you share your process? Temps? Time?, etc. How do you get finish off first? Stripper vs Sandblast vs Sanding? Thanks, Bruce
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| JM | -- 05-22-2011 @ 9:07 PM |
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I have several sets of wire wheels powder coated. The guys who have judged my cars probably didn't know if they were powder coated or painted and if they couldn't figure it out, I sure wouldn't tell them. I have been running these wheels for years and they still look as good as the day they were coated. The guy who coated them knew exactly what he was doing to get a beautiful durable finish. I would not even think about painting wire wheels again. However, I personally wouldn't bother to get small parts like items under the hood powder coated. JMO JM
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-22-2011 @ 9:23 PM |
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JM, I agree. I am a purist, but wheels are one thing I wouldn't hesitate to powder coat. Being an item that is often subjected to extreme abuse, together with the fact that for several reasons the result is all but undetectable on wheels, it just makes sense to do so. Alan
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| deuce_roadster | -- 05-22-2011 @ 9:53 PM |
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A friend of mine before he retired and sold his business used to own and run a high quality powder coating business that was licensed to do suspension parts for PACCAR which makes Kenworth and Peterbuilt trucks. To qualify and meet their standards, products needed to withstand a hot saltwater spray for some extended period of time like 60 hours. I asked him why was it some powder coatings come off in sheets and others seem to be tough as iron. He told me it was simple. Just like paint doesn't stick well to unprimered steel, neither does powdercoating. Good powdercoating takes more then 1 baked coat over the bare metal. There is a baked primer coat, then the color, just like paint. If you ask a powercoater if he uses primer and he says "HUH?" find another. The cheapest ones almost always are the ones that don't use primer and put the color on the bare metal. Also, there are cheaper suppliers of the powder itself. Tom always used the best and never had trouble. His finished product cost a bit more but was far superior to others in the area. Keep this in mind if you are getting something powdercoated. I had him do the frame for my 32 and it has proved to be a superior coating, getting back into corners spray paint never could. My car is NOT a concourse judged vehicle but I have judged 32s at many National meets and I would say the finish on my frame is as "authentic" looking as anything repainted.
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| 40guy | -- 05-23-2011 @ 6:51 AM |
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cfordguy: I recommend sand blasting. Then, probably the most important step: bake the bare metal sand blasted part in the oven at 450 for 30 min. Let cool and wipe with a clean rag and laquer thinner. Use a tack cloth to remove any fibres left by the cloth. Coat the part until the powder stands up like peach fuzz. Use only 5-7 lbs. air pressure at the gun. Hang part in oven pre heated to 425. When the part glosses over {about 5 min.} turn the oven down to 400 and bake an aditional 20-25 min. After cooling the part is ready for service immediately. Powder coating can be color sanded and buffed just like paint but I've never saw the need for it. I have used this method to produce flawless and lasting finishes for myself as well as other people. I've only heard of using primer where the finish needs to be evened up such as severe pitting. The protocol is to coat over bare metal.
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| flatheadfan | -- 05-23-2011 @ 2:03 PM |
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I am a believer in powder coating. I have a guy in Muskegon, MI who is reasonable and does super work. He sandblasts, primes, coats and then clear coats (if desired). Beside my wheels, I have had a lot of chassis and secondary body parts done. They look like new and have a finish that wears like iron. In fact, if you want to go the extra step, you can wet sand the stuff, buff it and it comes out looking like multi-coat lacquer. I guess some of the "purists" would argue that it is not "authentic" but neither are cars with hand-rubbed lacquer finishes on post '34 Fords which originally had a production enamel finish. Where do you draw the line? Tom
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-23-2011 @ 11:02 PM |
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Tom, you draw the line at the point that you consider important to you, as the owner and caretaker of your car. If you don't care about point judging, then go for it, by all means. I started this post only to remind that Ford did not powder coat, and if you do, you do so at peril of losing points on the Concourse. Most parts you powder coat will be obviously over-restored, deserving of point deductions. Here lies a major difference between the EFV8CA and other major Concours: We judge to the standard of how they were built, not to how they could have been built if money were no object. As I said, I personally believe it makes perfect sense to powder coat wheels. That said, the finish should not appear better than they were back in the day. Alan
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| trjford8 | -- 05-24-2011 @ 8:22 AM |
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Tom, you are correct where do you draw the line? Seems to me if one says it's O.K to powdercoat wheels, but says you can't powdercoat other items because it's not stock, has contradicted his own original message. This message was edited by trjford8 on 5-24-11 @ 10:34 AM
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-24-2011 @ 6:12 PM |
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No, Tom, I didn't contradict myself. Powder coat is incorrect, without a doubt, and could draw a point deduction on the Concourse if detected. Given the limited time available to judge a car, and the need to be certain before making a deduction, wheels will not draw the attention of the Judges near as much as a powder coated air cleaner or the car's frame. If the Judges don't catch it, you dodge the bullet. Alan
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| trjford8 | -- 05-24-2011 @ 7:03 PM |
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Al, your original warning said powdercoating was "very incorrect". Then you tell people that it's O.K. to powdrercoat wheels. Then you say powdercoating is O.K. if you don't get caught on the concourse.I'm confused about the original purpose of your post. It is in fact a contradiction and confusing to people.
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| ford38v8 | -- 05-24-2011 @ 7:53 PM |
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Tom, you just want an argument! I never said it was correct, I never said it was ok, I never said anything of the sort! What I did say was that in my personal opinion (not that of the Judging Standards Committee), was that as wheels are subject to extreme abuse, powder coating makes a lot of sense to me. That doesn't make it ok, nor does it mean that a Judge should turn a blind eye to them. Judges don't make the rules, they only endeavor to enforce them. If anyone else is confused, they haven't said so. All I've read is how lots of guys are happy with their powder coat, and they don't seem in the least concerned about how they'd fare on the Concourse. Everyone knows that you and I are about as far apart as we can get on the question of judging, but they should also know that we both appreciate each other's point of view, as well as the cars we both enjoy. I bet you won't argue that point! Alan
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-10-2011 @ 10:13 AM |
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40Guy are you talking about using the household oven? Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| 40guy | -- 08-10-2011 @ 3:20 PM |
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Yes. I use a household oven, therefore, I am limited to the size part I can powder coat. The process is the same though, regardless of oven size.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 08-10-2011 @ 9:51 PM |
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One thing I didn't mention in my previous post in this thread is that there are 2 main types of powder, epoxy based and polyester based. The epoxy stuff is much tougher and costs twice as much. The cheap coaters use the polyester. It is one factor in why you hear about powder coats that are tough as iron and some that are not. An experienced coater can make the finish that you want and make it very durable. Ask which kind of powder your coater uses.
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