| windjamer | -- 04-21-2011 @ 5:57 AM |
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Help! I have a 53 Flat head I am about to run. In the past we used 40W in the summer, and 20W in the winter. They have taken the zinc out of the oil! So what type of oil do we run today to keep a Flat Head happy?? And to keep the cam from going flat!?
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| supereal | -- 04-21-2011 @ 6:36 AM |
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Many of us run a multiple weight oil, such as 20W50. I prefer Castrol. It allows easy starting, but sustains oil pressure in hot weather. As for zinc, it was reduced to lessen contamination of the cat converters, but is essential only for engines with close tolerances and heavy valve train pressures. ZDDP assists in break in, primarily, and shouldn't be a worry for our flatheads. In over 60 years, I haven't seen a genuine Ford flathead cam go flat. It is true it is happening with modern engines, but mostly due to poor maintenance such as infrequent oil changes. Of course, there are a lot of ads for supplements, but as with predictions of valve damage from unleaded gas, the effect is vastly overstated, it seems. Our slow turning flatheads will be around for a very long time after many of today's high revving and overloaded motors are gone. This message was edited by supereal on 4-21-11 @ 6:38 AM
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| MG | -- 04-21-2011 @ 8:19 PM |
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supereal, I'm not trying to be critical here, but your statement - "Our slow turning flatheads will be around for a very long time after many of today's high revving and overloaded motors are gone." - I question your statement here, given the 200K to 300K miles which are achieved by today's modern computer controlled engine/motors. This, before any major work has to be performed on them. I recall when you were doing excellent to get just 100K out of a well maintained Flathead V8. I've got an '85 Honda Civic with just over 300K on it and it's runs as strong as the day I bought it. It doesn't smoke, use oil and I abuse it. And, this is not uncommon for these (today's) cars. Or, is it that you are implying that today's mondern engines are just throw-away motors which don't justify rebuilding? Even if this is the case, how do you explain the exceptional longevity/mileage these motors are capable of??? This message was edited by MG on 4-21-11 @ 8:28 PM
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| alanwoodieman | -- 04-22-2011 @ 6:16 AM |
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Windjammer, I have used 20W50 oil for years in my flatheads. I have used Castrol with good luck, but now I have easy access to Kendal Racing oil 20W50 and it has the "good stuff" like in the old days. Running two flatheads on it now a 40 wagon and a 41 truck running a 51 Merc with an Isky 77B. Stays in the motor, doesn't burn off. But like all most flatheads they leak a little-old Ford mechanic told me a long time ago "if your Ford doesn't leak you are out of oil"
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| wrosenkrans | -- 04-22-2011 @ 6:20 AM |
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Old Fords don't leak - they mark their territory... Wayne & Barb '42 Super De Luxe Tudor
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| 46fordnut | -- 04-22-2011 @ 6:59 AM |
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i use 30w non detergent . i don't drive it very much. if i put 1500 miles a year its a lot . it seems to run good on this oil for me . my engine as far as i know was not rebuilt. only has 100,000 miles. i.m the 3rd owner. 100 horse running wild This message was edited by 46fordnut on 4-22-11 @ 7:28 AM
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| supereal | -- 04-22-2011 @ 7:42 AM |
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A couple of things: don't use non detergent oil in anything, unless you love sludge. Even without a filter, detergent oil keeps particles in suspension so they can be drained instead of settling in the pan or valve chamber. As for my comments concerning the life expectancy of flatheads, I wasn't comparing miles, but the length of existence. Most flatheads are lightly driven, while today's high revving engines, particularly the small fours, are coming apart in alarming numbers. Our shop handles all kinds of vehicles, and very few engines today can be overhauled at all, let alone over and over, as most flatheads have been done. The last flatheads were made in 1953, more than a half century ago. I agree that some vehicles can make it to very high mileage but, from what we see in actual practice is that few really do. The majority of cars fall apart well before engine replacement. Those that survive are candidates for "crate engines", rather than overhaul, because the thin aluminum blocks are shot. We do a lot of big cast iron engines from trucks and tractors, but outside of renewing multivalve heads, very little engine work is ordered. Much of this is, ironically, due to the fact that today's vehicles are so trouble free for so long that owners neglect them. Most old engines were over engineered, which left lots of "meat" on the bones to allow renewal, which is fortunate for those of us who love our old cars. The "secret" to extended engine life is, and always has been, regular maintenance. This message was edited by supereal on 4-22-11 @ 10:04 AM
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| alanwoodieman | -- 04-22-2011 @ 2:15 PM |
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I like that saying--going to use from now on
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| Stroker | -- 04-22-2011 @ 3:17 PM |
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The venerable old flathead is pretty tough. We used to regularly haul loads of alfalfa (15,000 lbs.) from below sea level (Imperial Valley) to our home which was at 2000' in 90 degree weather with our 95 hp 40 truck. We hauled lemons and oranges (20,000 lbs.)to the various packing houses in the area. We had wind machines with 59A's that would swing a 9-foot prop @ 900 rpm 8 hours 7 days a week if necessary. I had what I would conservatively estimate to be 190 horse flathead (281 cu.in. in my 32 pickup. Ardun equipped hemi's have generated over 300 hp on the Wilcap dyno in the 50's, and fellow competitor Ron Main has an seriously-modified flatmotor that has propelled his streamliner to speeds over 300 mph at Bonneville. Having ranted all of this, there have been major improvements in casting technology, tribology, and alloys that have allowed us to put a bigger genie in the bottle. An engine is simply a vessel to contain the explosions that are ultimately translated to rotary movement. Today's engines are being asked to do more and more, with less and less. Todays engines, when they ultimately reach their life limits are pretty much just recyclable material and not much else. As Super has previously eluded to, there isn't much left to re-build. Our beloved flatmotors however, were actually designed to be rebuilt (within extreme limits). Given the fact that Dave Graham says that the average V8 Club member is in his 70's..(fits me), I would think that we should be letting our ancient motors turn slow enough to last quite a while longer.
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| shogun1940 | -- 04-22-2011 @ 5:18 PM |
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long before roller cams I used mobil 1 and never had a problem . I would use it today in any engine.
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| dixiejak | -- 08-21-2011 @ 3:33 PM |
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For what its worth department, I was told by a Sh*ll Oil tech that spoke at at classic car club years ago, that you should definitely not use high detergent oils in Model T's, Model A's and any other engines that still had babbitt in the rods instead of bearings. The reason as he stated, was over time, as the engine sets up without too much running, the combination of the babbitt and high detergent chemicals creates an acid affect and attacks the babbitt in the rods. He recommended for babbitt engine vehicles, to use plain none detergent 30 weight oil and change your oil every 3000 miles. Jim (dixiejak(
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| 46fordnut | -- 08-21-2011 @ 3:59 PM |
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if you think for a minute ....the service manual says to replace things that flat heads don't have and at regular mileage. like timing belts and water pumps at the same time because some are driven off of the timing belt. if you don't and the timing belt snaps you may need head work or even a piston or two. this only happens if you have what is called a close tolerance engine. my or most flatheads don't have a belt or a chain . they use gear to gear drive rare if at all these go bad. 100 horse running wild
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| 51f1 | -- 08-21-2011 @ 6:09 PM |
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I don't understand why people with old cars make such a big deal out which oil they should use. Unless you run scientific tests, how do you know one brand is better than another? Any modern oil is better than anything even dreamed of when flat head Fords were built. Richard
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| supereal | -- 08-21-2011 @ 8:08 PM |
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Choice of a brand is certainly up to the owner. My recommendation is for weight. Modern oils all contain packages of detergents and dispersants in most cases. These include anti acids. I used detergent oils for many years in babbit bearing engines with excellent results. The worst enemy of old engines is sludge. It was usual to actually scr*pe out handfuls of sludge years ago when non detergent oils were common. I change oil at the beginning and end of each driving season, regardless of mileage, and find the inside to be very clean at teardown. We don't use or recommend synthetic oils for old cars, as they tend to get by the primitive seals. They are wonderful in modern engines, but overkill in old vehicles.
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| BERTHA | -- 08-28-2011 @ 5:03 AM |
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....... "Any modern oil is better than anything even dreamed of when flat head Fords were built." "Richard" Excellent point Richard Been using Amsoil 20-50 Z-Rod in "Bertha" Bob
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