| MG | -- 04-18-2011 @ 12:01 PM |
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I'm replacing the aluminum Body ID Plate on the firewall of my '37. Can someone out there refer me to a quality set of stamps and of the correct size for this purpose?
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-18-2011 @ 4:25 PM |
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MG if you have the old plate with the numbers take it to a trophy shop and see if they can engrave it for you. hope this helps. 37 RAGTOPMAN
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| supereal | -- 04-18-2011 @ 5:19 PM |
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I'm not sure how we got off on fake titles and body plates, etc. I believe that most, if not all, serious old car hobbists subscribe to the desire to retain as much of the authentic character of their vehicles as possible. Perhaps the most vivid example is the interest in "Rouge" examples which, being in less than pristine condition, reflect the true original character and construction. Anything less is simply substituting reproduction parts for the "real" thing. Too much "restoration" eventually erases the connection with the origin of the vehicle. Hence, the deduction of judging points for "over restoration". This message was edited by supereal on 4-18-11 @ 5:20 PM
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| MG | -- 04-18-2011 @ 11:41 PM |
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37RAGTOPMAN, Good idea. I don't have the old plate though. I have a repo ID plate which is blank where the numbers are suppose to be 78-_______ I do know what the number is that is supposed to be stamped there. I'm wondering if Ford used a certain style/script and what size they used when they stamped these plates. I figure, better the correct plate with numbers stamped on it than two empty holes in the firewall where the plate should be. This, even though some people consider this to be "fake" or "over restoration". This message was edited by MG on 4-19-11 @ 12:02 AM
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-19-2011 @ 5:51 AM |
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MG I would go to a trophy shop and look at what they have to offer, FORD did nothing fancy, something along the 78------ the rest of the numbers should be your VIN number,would be a good way to go I would think,just a simple font,you have to remember that even if you were to go for judging,the judges probably wouldn't even notice it, the rest of the numbers should be your VIN number, I stand corrected on the number should be the body number,and not the VIN number, its been a few years since I restored my 37 CAB sorry for the mistake... thanks for the correction,,, but if PLATE was missing then they might deduct ? hope you drive and enjoy you old FORD. and not let it sitting in the garage my 3 cents 37RAGTOPMAN This message was edited by 37RAGTOPMAN on 4-19-11 @ 8:51 AM
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| 42ford | -- 04-19-2011 @ 6:39 AM |
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I am not sure if 37 used the star. Where it is used, it is important
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| 42wagon | -- 04-19-2011 @ 6:48 AM |
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MG I could be wrong on this but I believe the plate on your firewall was a body number plate. It may have been a generic number that referred to the type of body or a sequential number for the body as produced. However from what I have been given to understand it has nothing to do with the so called "vin" number for the car. That is a sequential number starting with *18- and was stamped on the transmission at the Rouge engine plant and transferred to the left frame rail at the assembly plant. Ted
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| nelsb01 | -- 04-19-2011 @ 7:33 AM |
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You're not wrong -- the Patent Plate on the engine firewall was the model year 78 followed by the body style number (example 770 would be for Coupe - 5 window)
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| nelsb01 | -- 04-19-2011 @ 7:37 AM |
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Sorry -- my post should have said the Body ID plate that is mounted above the Patent Plate on the firewall.
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| CharlieStephens | -- 04-19-2011 @ 8:59 AM |
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MG, I don't think very many responders read your question. The numbers on the tag are raised as if stamped from the back on my '37 coupe. There are three lines of data all with different size stamps. You would spend a lot of money on stamps. The stamp would have to be the reverse of a normal stamp. I have never seen or heard of them being available. Your best bet might be to look for someone that restores tags as a business (post if you find anything).My thought is that you would be better off with an old tag and restoring it. It appears (although my tag is old) that everything is stamped and there was no other information on the tag. Try an ad on HAMB as those guys always remove the tags to fill and smooth out the firewall. I expected to find a photo in the '37 book but could not. Mine is old and tired and would not photograph well. Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 4-19-11 @ 9:01 AM
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| 42wagon | -- 04-19-2011 @ 10:15 AM |
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The most knowledgeable source of of tags and tag information that I know of is www.datatags.com
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| MG | -- 04-19-2011 @ 11:09 AM |
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42wagon, Thanks for your post with respect to datatags.com....
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| Dipper005 | -- 04-20-2011 @ 5:44 AM |
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Hi. Just thought I'd let you know what I found out about my 48 Ford. The original ID plate on the firewall is there , but blank. I'm trying to get a replacement title for the car because the old one was lost and Motor Vehicle records won't go back as far as even the last year it was driven (1977)so I have to prove the car is mine. Long story short I was told some early Fords ID plates were never stamped from the factory, and that the ID number is stamped on top of the left frame rail. I still have to prove the car is mine and then jump through a bunch of hoops to get it retitled.
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| Don Rogers | -- 04-20-2011 @ 8:01 AM |
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MG Let me try to answer the question that you originally asked. I would take the new body plate to an engraver as suggested in previous posts. I have attached a picture of several body plates from 35 showing the type and size of numbers for each style of plate. The top plate was on a body produced by Briggs Co. and the bottom 2 plates on bodies produced by Murray Co. Regarding the number to put on the plate!!!!! Do not put the vin number on the plate. In 1937, only the body number was on the plate. To approximate the body number you need to know the total number of your type of body that were produced in 1937. You also need to know the approximate date that your car was manufactured(use engine number for this). You can then create a ratio and apply it to your body number. For example: If your car was built about 2/3 of the way into the model year then your body number should be about 2/3 of the total bodies produced. Contact me if you need more clarification.
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| trjford8 | -- 04-20-2011 @ 8:07 AM |
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Dipper, most states require the frame number for identification purposes. You ID number is stamped on top of the left frame rail between the steering box mount and the front crossmember. In the case of your car most can be found near the front crossmember. In order to register the car you should have a bill of sale from the last owner. Do you have any old expired registration slips on the car? If you have a bill of sale and there is no record of the ID number on file you may be able to get the car bonded by an insurance company. Once bonded (this keeps the DMV out of any legal problems that may arise) you should be able to get a title. Usually the bond only has to be maintained for 3 years.
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| MG | -- 04-20-2011 @ 9:06 AM |
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Don Rogers, Can't see the engine number at this time but the date code on the window glass "bug" is 4/37. The body style is Fordor Touring Sedan. This message was edited by MG on 4-20-11 @ 1:20 PM
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| Don Rogers | -- 04-20-2011 @ 11:31 AM |
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MG Your glass date puts your car production about 7/12 into the production total. They made about 109,005 fordor touring sedans in 37. So I would guess at a number of about 63,536. This number makes a lot of assumptions!!!! You should talk to other fordor touring sedan owners to see if they have an original plate to look at and to see if more than one body builder made your body style. Good luck
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| CharlieStephens | -- 04-20-2011 @ 11:42 AM |
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MG, You will not find an "engine number". The number for the engine/transmission assembly was stamped on a pad on the top of the transmission. You will have to pull the plate on the floor to see it. The transmission may have been replaced which will make this number useless. The number you should be looking for is stamped into the frame near the steering. This number on the frame will be used by DMV as a "VIN" to identify the car. Mine is clearly stamped and easily readable although yours may be faint and filled with paint. I have attached a photo of my body number. I am not sure if some of them were engraved as Ron suggested but mine appears to have been stamped from the back to raise the letters/numbers. This may be covered in the club's book but I was unable to find anything. Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 4-20-11 @ 11:44 AM
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| MG | -- 04-20-2011 @ 1:16 PM |
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Hell Charlie, I'll just use your number! Thanks a lot man! :o) Now I think that you and Don Rogers should go at it.... This message was edited by MG on 4-20-11 @ 1:20 PM
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| MOXIE | -- 04-20-2011 @ 4:32 PM |
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In my state the sheriff has to inspect the car making sure the number on the car matches the title. I told hime the vin number was stamped on the frame and it matched the title. He saw the frame number and everything was cool till he saw the aluminum plate on my firewall. He had a hard time accepting the fact that that was not the vin number but a body number. After showing him my 35 restoration manual he agreed to OK the car but I believe he still thought I was trying to pull something.
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| 40 Coupe | -- 04-22-2011 @ 6:20 AM |
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Hi Charlie: Is the body number plate pictured for a Canadian built coupe? I was wondering why the -S? I would have expected a -A,B or C
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| supereal | -- 04-22-2011 @ 7:52 AM |
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There has been some confusion, from time to time, between a body plate and the patent plate on Fords. Not all cars or trucks have a body plate, but most do have the other, which are available from most vendors. I'd be wary of making up numbers to add to any vehicle.
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| johnh6813 | -- 04-22-2011 @ 6:08 PM |
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this guy will make you a plate a.g. backeast p.o.box 40011 Grand Junction ,co 81504.Canada John.
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| johnh6813 | -- 04-22-2011 @ 6:09 PM |
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this guy will make you a plate a.g. backeast p.o.box 40011 Grand Junction ,co 81504.Canada John.
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| johnh6813 | -- 04-22-2011 @ 6:09 PM |
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this guy will make you a plate a.g. backeast p.o.box 40011 Grand Junction ,co 81504.Canada John.
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| MG | -- 04-22-2011 @ 7:01 PM |
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Don & Charlie, I went to this website: http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/f/ford/ford.htm ..... .....and found the correct body # designation for my 1937 Deluxe Touring Sedan is 78-730-D and the body builder was Ford. Where 78 is the model number and 730-D is the body number. The 730-D will be the first four digits/fonts I will be stamping on to the plate. Now, to figure out what the last four digits will be. This message was edited by MG on 4-22-11 @ 7:11 PM
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| 42wagon | -- 04-23-2011 @ 4:24 AM |
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MG While probably having no bearing on the current discussion, the Coachbuilt body list has discrepancies in it at least as far as station wagons are concerned. According to Lorin Sorensen's book Famous Ford Woodies, the only one supplying station wagon bodies after 1933 was Murray and in mid 1939 they lost the contract as the bodies for the 1940 Model year and beyond were produced in house by Ford at their Iron Mountain Michigan plant and shipped to the assembly plants. Even at that Murray was supplied with a wood "kit" to assemble from the Iron Mountain Ford Plant. Why Baker Raulang and Briggs continue to appear in the list is a mystery. BTW the Iron Mountain bodies do not have body tags. A sequential body number by year without a body designation was stamped directly on the firewall. Ted
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| MG | -- 04-23-2011 @ 11:18 AM |
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42wagon, I just checked Ford's 'Chassis Parts List' publication dated June 1937 and like the Coacbuilt body list, it to shows 730-D to be the Body Type for my car. That these two sources agree, I'm confident I'll be OK in using 730-D on my plate. I'm thinking to just fake the remaining numbers to use such as using the first two and the last two numbers of my VIN number. At least, half of the number would be correct. The end result will be a Body Number plate looking like this: 78 730D 3867 What do you think? This message was edited by MG on 4-23-11 @ 1:48 PM
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| CharlieStephens | -- 04-24-2011 @ 3:07 PM |
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MG, How does this reconcile with the photo of my plate? Are there different types of plates out there? Help anybody. I still wonder what the "S" stands for. Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 4-24-11 @ 3:08 PM
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| MG | -- 04-24-2011 @ 3:23 PM |
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Charlie, Your body was built by Murray and I can only guess that the 'S' stands for Standard? My referances only show 770A for Standard 5 Window Coupes and 770B for Deluxe 5 Window Coupes. Maybe the 'S' was unique to Murray. This message was edited by MG on 4-24-11 @ 3:56 PM
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| CharlieStephens | -- 04-24-2011 @ 7:21 PM |
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MG, How do you know it was built by Murrey? Is there a difference in the format/style of the body number plate? I had guessed the S was standard but couldn't find anything to confirm it. Charlie Stephens
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| MG | -- 04-24-2011 @ 7:57 PM |
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Charlie, Go to the website I posted above - This website: http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/f/ford/ford.htm
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| CharlieStephens | -- 04-25-2011 @ 9:30 AM |
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MG, Thanks for reference to the web site, I thought you were looking at something on the body number plate to tell the manufacturer. Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 4-25-11 @ 1:30 PM
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| Dipper005 | -- 04-27-2011 @ 8:19 AM |
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Thanks for the heads up on getting it bonded. I,ll look in to it .
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