| rbone | -- 04-11-2011 @ 8:29 AM |
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I am sure this has been covered before, but I am at a loss. My 59AB continues to run at well over 225 degrees. I just had both water pumps rebuilt by Skip Haney, flushed the entire cooling circuit twice, added Purple Ice, and it is still running very hot. I live just north of Dallas, TX and yesterday the outside temperature was about 90 degrees - warm, but certainly not hot yet. I have good oil pressure also. The only thing else I can think of is to remove the thermostats. Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron
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| supereal | -- 04-11-2011 @ 10:28 AM |
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I would pull the thermostats to see if it makes a difference. One or the other may not be opening fully, or at all. If that doesn't help, I'd suspect a leaking head gasket. Watch for white smoke from the tailpipe, particularly at starting. There can be lots of other causes, such as dragging brakes caused by a master cylinder without enough free play to allow the fluid to return, or a slipping belt. My '47 wouldn't go around the block when I bought it without pegging the gauge. A compression test showed no problems, and the radiator looked good when I peered down the filler. I "bit the bullet" and bought a new radiator after nothing else proved to cause the overheat. Now, I can run in 100 degree temperatures all day and never go above the two thirds of the gauge, even in stop and go traffic.
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| MG | -- 04-11-2011 @ 12:12 PM |
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Ron, How are you checking the temperature of the engine? Are you using a meat thermometer or a heat gun? If not, maybe the cars temp gauge is the culprit.
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| rbone | -- 04-11-2011 @ 7:05 PM |
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I plan to check the guage out this weekend. I have a nice Fischer Scientific temperature probe. I have thought about the radiator as well. If all else fails, that may be my only choice, but I sure hope it does not come to that. Ron
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| ford38v8 | -- 04-11-2011 @ 9:51 PM |
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Ron, Before you go dismantling anything, check your thermostats in this manner: From a cold start, hold your hands on both top radiator hoses. They should both remain cool until your engine gets up to operating temperature, then both hoses should warm quickly almost simultaneously. If this is not the case, then you've discovered at least one problem, and will know that one of your thermostats is non-functional. I agree with the advise that Supereal gave also, but would add that if your radiator is at fault, it can usually be made to function properly again by a good old fashioned radiator shop. Many have gone out of business in favor of simply replacing old with new, but new in the case of vintage iron coasts a bundle if you can find it. A good shop will boil it out, run a flow test on it to see if it needs further action. They can dismantle it, run rods through each tube to clean out the lime deposits, reassemble it, pressure test it, paint it as new, and present it back to you at a fraction of the cost of a modern replacement of lesser quality. Alan
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-12-2011 @ 6:46 AM |
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was wondering if it is a new rebuilt motor, did this happen overnight? or did it happen a little at a time? if it is a new motor it will need to be broken in, place a large fan in front of the radiator and monitor the temp, use a temp guage in the neck of radiator, and let it run and break in, maybe 1/2 hour at a time letting it cool down before restarting, also be sure your timing is not retarded, this will make it run hotter, DOES IT OVERHEAT at IDLE ? or when crusing down the road ? more info might help,,! my 3 cents 37 RAGTOPMAN
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| TomO | -- 04-12-2011 @ 8:06 AM |
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A candy thermometer is the best investment that you can make when trouble shooting cooling problems. They are accurate and do not cost much. All of the previous advice is good and the only addition that I would make is: find a good radiator shop and have them help you with the cooling problem before you remove the radiator. Timing problems can be due to incorrect setting of the points, worn out distributor, or wear in the camshaft gear or crank gear. Tom
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| supereal | -- 04-12-2011 @ 8:54 AM |
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I don't have any prejudiice against radiator shops, but most, at least around here, have closed. This is partly due to the adoption of aluminum cores and plastic tanks, but mostly because they were eclipsed by the relative costs involved for the benefits produced. When I was working for a Ford dealer many years ago, they kept two radiator mechanics busy all day, every day. I understand that good quality radiators for old Fords now cost north of five hundred dollars. Perhaps some areas still have competent shops. We don't. Usually a radiator that has been cleaned isn't as efficient as a new one. If you compare costs of recoring, you already have spent much of the cost for a whole new unit. Old cars already have lost much of their cooling efficiency due to the liming of the block, and need all the help they can get to maintain a reasonable and dependable operating temperature.
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| Stroker | -- 04-12-2011 @ 10:07 AM |
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Maybe just use a little Midwestern Acid Rainwater to clean out the lime.
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| dakota | -- 04-12-2011 @ 2:58 PM |
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If you happen to live near salt water check out your local marina. All diesel boats have heat exchangers, after coolers, and oil coolers. What happens is that salt water clogs these systems and there are plenty of company's that specialize in cleaning and pressure testing these components. I am sure that they can clean any radiator. They come back like new.
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| rbone | -- 04-14-2011 @ 6:26 PM |
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Well - I checked the water temperature in the radiator this afternoon. With the gauge reading about 235 deg F, my temperature probe read 157 deg F. It looks like either the temperature probe or the gauge is bad. I will test and replace this weekend. Thanks for all of the help! Ron
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| ford38v8 | -- 04-14-2011 @ 9:05 PM |
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Ron, did you do the top hose temp check as I suggested? The hoses will tell you if you have a faulty thermostat, which can definitely cause the latest condition you describe. A flathead has two separate water cooling systems which join only in the radiator itself. If one side of your block is not flowing, it will show hot on your gage as it should, but the radiator will never see that temperature if it can't get the flow. Alan
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| sturgis 39 | -- 04-15-2011 @ 1:51 AM |
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A Cooper radiator cools twice as much as an Aluminum radiator. I thought you should know this in case you buy a new one. I see old Fords with Aluminum radiators and electric fans. I usually do not say anything but I would like to. IF IT CAN NOT BE FIXED WITH BLASTING WIRE, DUCT TAPE OR JB WELD - IT CAN NOT BE FIXED
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| rbone | -- 04-15-2011 @ 8:53 AM |
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Alan, Thanks for the tip. Actually, I took the thermostats out several years ago when I last replaced the upper radiator hoses. I had forgotten about that when I originally posted this topic. The water temperature, and the temperature of both hoses, slowly rose from ambient, which was about 85 degrees F yesterday afternoon, to about 157 F. Ron
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| TomO | -- 04-15-2011 @ 4:40 PM |
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Ron, Remove the sending unit from the head and clean the threads so that you get a good ground. Then try it again. The sending unit with one terminal is the one that determines the temperature on the gauge, the one with two terminals is just an over heat switch. A poor ground on either of them will affect the gauge reading. Tom
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| rbone | -- 04-22-2011 @ 2:46 PM |
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It was the sending unit. Just drove her for a few miles and she is running at about 170. Outside temp today is about 90. Ron
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| 39 Ken | -- 04-23-2011 @ 5:35 AM |
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What did you do to discover the problem and repair the "sending unit"??
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| rbone | -- 04-23-2011 @ 1:54 PM |
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Ken, I tested the unit by running my ohm meter from ground to the thermocouple post. As the motor warmed up the resistance was erratic. I called Stewart Werner and talked to a tech. They are down in Houston. After a few minutes of telling him what I was seeing, he suggested that I replace the thermocouple. I ordered one, installed it, and the gauge now reads normally (as checked with a good scientific thermometer). Hope this answers your question. Ron
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| TomO | -- 04-23-2011 @ 5:17 PM |
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Ron, What you saw with your ohmmeter is probably normal for a King -Seeley gauge and sending unit. The unit is not a thermocouple it is more like a thermostat. You cannot test the sending units with an ohmmeter. A wire is wound around a bi-metal strip and current is passed through the wire heating the bi-metal strip. This opens the contacts in the unit. The contact point gap is changed by another bi-metal strip. As the engine heats up, the point gap is increased, reducing the current in the circuit. The dash unit has a bi-metal strip that moves the needle in proportion to the current in the circuit. Any extra resistance in the circuit will affect the gauge reading. it has the same effect as increasing the point gap. That is why I suggested cleaning the threads on the sending unit and the head and then retry the sending unit. Tom
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| rbone | -- 04-24-2011 @ 6:42 AM |
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Tom - thanks for the explanation. Ron
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