| thirtysixford | -- 04-08-2011 @ 12:34 PM |
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In preparation to replace my rear axle shafts, I purchased new hardware from one of the big online parts houses. I bought new castle nuts & cotter pins, washers, hub gaskets, snap rings, seals and new axle keys. When I inspected these items I noticed the keys are not straight. Is this an issue?
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| ford38v8 | -- 04-08-2011 @ 1:17 PM |
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36, your keys look to be pretty crudely made. I'd wonder if they are made in the USA, and if they fit properly. To lose an axle because of a stupid shaft key would be unfortunate. On the subject, inspect your axle at the terminus of the slot for possible cracks. Axle failures happen here more often than not, and are invariably caused by a sloppy key which in turn may have been caused by a loose drum. No lubrication on the taper and a re-tightening after a short drive are both essential to help prevent axle failure. Alan
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| supereal | -- 04-08-2011 @ 1:28 PM |
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Are you referring to the flat on one end of the key? That is normal, and goes toward the backing plate end of the keyway with the flat facing up. In addition to Alan's advice, carefully check the keyway in the axle. It should be straight on both sides. A loose key could have swedged the keyway. If so, and not excessive, hold a big hammer under the end of th axle, and with another hammer, carefully pound along the keyway to force it back into alignment. If you see any cracking, particularly at the rear corners of the keyway, the axle will have to be replaced, as that is where they usually break.
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| thirtysixford | -- 04-08-2011 @ 2:15 PM |
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Thanks Alan and Super Alan, you hit it on the head, I thought they looked cheap. Super, they are not straight along the length. I don't want to bad mouth a vendor who usually provides good quality products, so where can I get a USA key? McMaster Carr ??
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| Stroker | -- 04-08-2011 @ 3:20 PM |
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36: I think McMaster Carr should have some decent key stock. The last time I replaced my axle keys I just purchased about a foot of keys stock and cut and ground to length, with the proper taper at the inboard end. The pictured keys have a decidedly "third-world" appearance, and I wouldn't trust them.
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| thirtysixford | -- 04-08-2011 @ 4:40 PM |
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Super Where do you buy your axle keys?
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| thirtysixford | -- 04-08-2011 @ 6:34 PM |
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C&G
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| supereal | -- 04-08-2011 @ 8:11 PM |
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Likewise, most of ours come from C&G. If we run out, we make then from good quality key stock which is readily available. They aren't expensive to buy, and we buy several at a time. The producers of foreign parts seem to be strangers to hardness on lots of parts.
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| 40 Coupe | -- 04-10-2011 @ 5:09 AM |
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if you have a store in the area that supplies tools to machine shops you can buy there. Do not ask for "key stock", you want 1/4" square stock, key stock is about 0.003" above 0.250"
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-10-2011 @ 6:25 AM |
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hi you should be able to buy 1/4 inch stock from any good hardware store.you will have to cut to length and file down the taper, duplicate like the one you took out, also should not be really hard tempered,like machine tool stock...!! you want them to go before the axle does, acts like a shear pin, my 3 cents worth, 37 RAGTOPMAN I never broke one, but have seen some with issues,
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| supereal | -- 04-10-2011 @ 10:50 AM |
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When buying stock for axle keys, or any other critical part, take along a dial caliper to compare with the original. Good dial calipers have become rather inexpensive, and should be a part of the tool collection of anyone doing their own work.
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| thirtysixford | -- 04-10-2011 @ 6:04 PM |
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I would have never guessed an axle key would be this complicated. Thanks to all for the info, but.... I'm now more confused than ever. If the keys are not hardened (which I thought they were) why would it make any difference if the C&G keys are not perfectly straight? If they are mild steel, would they not straighten out when I tap them into the key ways? If I buy square stock from a hardware store and mount it in a vise to cut it and then grind the bevel I doubt if it will end up as straight as what C&G sent me. I did look at the "Green Book" part B-4243 and it lists it as rear axle shaft key 2-55/64" overall length. I believe that is 2.859 the C&G's are 2.772 BUT the ones I took out are 3.0". Also they do not have the bevel cut into them. Maybe this is the source of my original axle problem. One last question should the key be in the axle and then the drum installed or can you put the drum on the axle, line it up and then tap in the key? Ok one more, what should I torque the axle nut to? Super.... C&G .247" Original .248" depending where you measure, they are pretty beat up. FYI, key stock comes in std., +.003 and -.003 from McMaster Carr. Mike
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| ford38v8 | -- 04-10-2011 @ 7:23 PM |
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Mike, I think I started out here giving you and others the wrong idea about the keys. Your new keys may very well be serviceable, it's just that they appear crudely made. The key (pun intended) here is that they be snug. A sloppy key will cause a hammering back and forth that is death to the axle. The most important issue is that the drum must be tight on the shaft, and a sloppy key will enable the drum to loosen in use. This requires that there be no burrs, no surface rust, and no lubricant of any kind on the hub and shaft. You asked if the key could be tapped in after the hub is installed: Short answer is no. Line up the key and tap it in, noting that if it is too far inboard, it will not seat all the way down due to the keyway tapering up at the inboard end. The hub is then slid onto the axle, a new grease seal washer installed (these days usually a bright blue), the washer, and then the castle nut. A useful tip here... Use a felt pen on the axle end to indicate the position of the cotter pin hole. Now the nut is tightened. Forget about torque, use a cheater bar on the wrench and git it tight. Stand on it if you like, you won't hurt it. Line up the castling with the hole and install the cotter key. Some will advise that to remove the hub in the future, you don't need a hub puller, just loosen the nut and drive around the block. This may work, but possibly at the cost of damage done to the axle. Do it right, get a KRW hub puller. Alan
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| thirtysixford | -- 04-10-2011 @ 8:10 PM |
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Alan Thank you.. you have given me great advice in the past and I always know I'm getting the real deal when you or another of the "regular forum members" reply. You guys know who I mean. Mike
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| thirtysixford | -- 04-10-2011 @ 9:51 PM |
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O'Boy I ordered new axle shaft seals from C&G. B-1183 Are these the "Blue seals" you speak of?
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| supereal | -- 04-11-2011 @ 10:34 AM |
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The outer axle seals are usually gray or blue, and should fit the recess in the end of the hub. Be careful about the grease seals being sold today, particularly by one vendor. They are not red coated, and tend to collapse while being driven into place. I've been doing this for a very long time, but it took five of those to get a two down far enough to clear the snap ring groove.
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| thirtysixford | -- 04-11-2011 @ 11:06 AM |
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Thanks Super I sure don't want to do this twice! Did you see my post on how the keys I took out are 3" not 2.859 and have no bevel on them? I'm thinking this may have been the problem. On the other hand, I have driven this car maybe 10,000 miles since I bought it in 1990. I only noticed the axles were damaged when I removed the drums. No drive problems. Who knows
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| thirtysixford | -- 04-11-2011 @ 11:32 AM |
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Sorry folks Super The seals you are talking about are they also from C&G? The ones they me sent do have red on the outer edge. Are these the ones that will work?
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| supereal | -- 04-11-2011 @ 12:45 PM |
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Yes. The ones with the red sealer are good. The plain ones came from another well known vendor- supplier. We ran out, and I bought them locally because we needed them ASAP. We usually get them from C&G. Axle keys should fit as closely as possible. If the car was ever run with loose hubs, the keyway may be enlarged. Put the hubs on clean and dry, and retighten them after a hundred or so miles. In over 60 years, I have never twisted off the end of an axle unless it was damaged before. A big "breaker bar" with a pipe extension on the handle is our favorite tool for the job. We mark the position of the cotter key hole with a file on the end of the axle, but a permanent marker is OK, too. Doing so makes lining up the nut with the hole considerably easier.
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