| 35gal | -- 04-07-2011 @ 1:33 PM |
|
Every season I go thru this ritual of removing or installing thermostats. I remove in the summer because I have Skip’s pumps and according to his instructions, they should be removed in the summer. But in a 35 it’s a lot of work, because you have to remove the pumps in order to remove the stats. And bending the hose is no option. But I’m wondering is it necessary to remove. I read one article where it stated they should be kept in so the water can be exposed to the radiator longer. But I guess I’m wasting money by buying Skip’s high flow pumps if I plan on leaving the thermostats in. What are your thoughts?
|
|
| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-07-2011 @ 1:48 PM |
|
why do you put them back in? are you driving the car in the winter and need the hot water for heat ? or does it overheat with the thermostats in? what you have to do is , run the car till operating temp, then fill the radiator, this will keep air from foaming the coolant, do you have Skips OVERFLOW valve in? let us know, 37RAGTOPMAN
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 04-07-2011 @ 2:40 PM |
|
35gal, the article you read has been tossed around on this Forum till the cows came home. Water will absorb heat and dissipate heat at the same rate. If it stays in the radiator longer, that means it stays in the block longer also, and you don't want the coolant to go above boiling temp in the block. Faster water flow only means that a given temperature drop will be attained in the radiator at a point farther away from the inlet. Skips pumps have a high flow rate that requires a free passageway for efficiency. Thermostats are restrictors, even in the open position. So unless you plan on driving extensively in cold climates, removing the stats permanently will only mean that your engine will take a few minutes longer to attain operating temperature. For example, with stats in, they may open at mile #3, and without stats, that same temperature will be attained at mile #5 or #6, as all the coolant has to b e heated as opposed to only the coolant in the block. Alan
|
|
| trjford8 | -- 04-07-2011 @ 7:53 PM |
|
I would look at this issue in simple terms. If you don't have a heating issue in warm weather with the stats, leave them in place. If "it ain't broke don't fix it".
|
|
| 46fordnut | -- 04-07-2011 @ 8:01 PM |
|
funny i put them mine in one works fine the other did not open. with out thermostats it runs a little hot in summer on a half hour drive.i do have a good 50/50 mix.takes about 2 hours for temp to go down when car is not running . does not boil over eather...yet 100 horse running wild
|
|
| supereal | -- 04-07-2011 @ 8:47 PM |
|
Thermostats serve two purposes. They allow the operating temperature to arise sooner which, in turn, reduces the formation of sludge. The other is to provide a bit of back pressure to reduce hot spots in the water jacket that create steam that does not produce cooling. On later cars, the pressure cap does that job. Be sure your stats open fully at the correct temperature, and that if your car has the stats in the upper hoses that they are secure in place so they can't turn over and block the hose. The improved flow water pumps help offset the common cause of overheating, a coating of lime in the system. A coating of only 1/16th of an inch reduces cooling efficiency by as much as 40 percent. Most of us drive primarily in the warmer time of the years when having thermostats can be omitted to further enhance flow.
|
|
| MG | -- 04-07-2011 @ 9:00 PM |
|
35gal said: "But in a 35 it’s a lot of work, because you have to remove the pumps in order to remove the stats." Why do you have to remove the pumps??? BTW - I don't run stats.
|
|
| JM | -- 04-08-2011 @ 10:05 AM |
|
I already replyed to this same question for you over on the Ford Barn. I also wondered why you need to remove water pumps to install or remove thermostats? I can get to the stats in my '35 by just removing the top hoses. What kind/brand name stats are you using? JM This message was edited by JM on 4-8-11 @ 10:06 AM
|
|
| drkbp | -- 04-08-2011 @ 10:32 AM |
|
35gal, You are correct. It is the way to put them in/out... drop the water pump down, slide them in the top of the hose, push the hose back up on the radiator and bolt the pump back on. If you have a '35, you know. They work just fine. Drove mine to the office yesterday and today. It will be 85 today. I certainly don't need them for heat! I live in the tropics (Houston) and drive all year. There is no need to take them out in the summer. I use the stats to slow the water flow down when going over 40-45 mph. If you have a '35 with the correct engine, transmission and 4.11 in it, you know why. Ken in Texas
|
|
| 35gal | -- 04-08-2011 @ 12:00 PM |
|
My stats are original and fit inside the hose. I've tried to remove the hose without removing the pump and it required sticking a screwdriver up into the edge of it and prying (with a lot of effort) to slide hose off water pump. I ended up tearing hose. Like drkbp stated, the best way to remove is dropping the pump. But you do run into the probem of removing the old water pump gasket and buying a new one. Also it has always been difficult for me to get a good tight fit at the radiator and pump connection without leaks. I drive my car in the winter and it gets cold here. Even with the stats in, the engine barely gets above 140 to 160 degrees. I have a hot air heater and i get plenty of heat from it even at those temps. I would like to leave the stats in year round. I have never left them in before but i think I will try it this summer and see how hot it gets.
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 04-08-2011 @ 12:08 PM |
|
Ken, slow the water down over 40-45 mph why? Curious minds need to know. Alan
|
|
| supereal | -- 04-09-2011 @ 3:12 PM |
|
As I recall from my Model A days, running at speeds much over 40 mph usually resulted in spraying coolant out around the cap and overflow and onto the windshield as the pump ran faster, even though the radiator had a built in baffle in the top tank, when it exceeded the flow capacity of the radiator core. If I had an unpressurized cooling system today, I'd opt for Skip Haney's overflow valve system and, if I needed antifreeze, I'd use Sierra to reduce foaming. In spite of the old "legend" about slowing down the coolant flow to "allow it to pick up more heat", it is baloney. The more coolant flow you have increases the efficiency, period.
|
|
| drkbp | -- 04-09-2011 @ 7:06 PM |
|
Alan, The left water pumps on the '35 are only 15 inches from the filler cap. Maybe less on the A Model. The system is not pressurized and it will blow out under the cap. Like I said, you must not have one. I turned 9,000 miles on that one yesterday since the last rebuild. Alan, it's not that it is hot at 55 mph as much as it is the blow by that supereal is talking about. If you pressurize the system, I have no experience with that. Do not wish to argue thermal either. I taught it at a major university and this is my hobby so I will stick to that hobby experience <grin>. Y'all do tickle me at times though. Like a fellow told me one day, "It's your rig so run it like you want." I only try to comment when I believe I can offer some experience. Also, I am not a mechanic but I feel like there are some very good ones on this forum so I like to read what y'all have to say every day. Ken
|
|
| wmsteed | -- 04-15-2011 @ 9:02 AM |
|
I'll have to somewhat agree with "Super".. The old habit of removing the stats in the summer, reinstalling in the fall so the heater will work just never seems to die. The purpose of thermostats is to maintain an even operating temp for the engine, preventing sludge build up in the oil and improving fuel mileage. An engine that runs "warm" is not a bad thing. The temp gauge in my '36 w/59AB engine sits at the 3/4 level all the time and has for the 94k I have put on the car.. Sometimes the gauge will rise to the top in traffic or a steep hill, so long as the engine does not boil, I don't worry about it. Bill 36 5 win delx cpe
|
|
| drkbp | -- 04-25-2011 @ 6:19 PM |
|
The thermostats in the upper hoses began with the 1933s and went to the '37s. See Ray Millers "The V8 Affair", he has a good plate showing the stats and which years Ford used them and which style. Ford then fixed the problem of pumping hot water out of the top of the head and began pumping cooled water in the bottom of the block of your 24 stud engines. Different ballgame. Water return from center of the head. Ken in Texas
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 04-25-2011 @ 7:46 PM |
|
Ken, lest we befuddle the newbies, I'm sure you'll not mind my small correction of direction of water flow: 1937 had the first pump-in-block. It, and partial production in 1938, was the last of the 21 stud auto engines. The stats, of course, remained in the upper hoses. Alan
|
|
| drkbp | -- 04-26-2011 @ 2:14 PM |
|
Alan, Doesn't the water flow out of the top of the heads into the top of the radiator and out the bottom of the radiator to return to the engine? Ken in Texas
|
|
| drkbp | -- 04-26-2011 @ 5:30 PM |
|
Can someone tell me how to post two jpgs I have resized to post? I can't follow what they are getting at. Thank you, Ken in Texas
|
|
| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-26-2011 @ 5:58 PM |
|
35gal why not put 155's in it, for the summer, and for the winter put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator and just watch the guage so it does not overheat,so you get heat, if it starts to HEAT UP just remove the cardboard or a piece of it, till you get the right temp you want,? crude but works, problem solved ? 37RAGTOPMAN
|
|
| drkbp | -- 04-26-2011 @ 6:47 PM |
|
Try to post jpg. Well, it worked. Shows the stats used by Ford that were introduced in late 1933. This message was edited by drkbp on 4-26-11 @ 6:50 PM
|
|
| Stroker | -- 04-26-2011 @ 6:52 PM |
|
The direction of flow, whether using the head mounted (32-36) pumps, or the block mounted (37-53) pumps is the same. The big difference occurs when the engine is just at the boiling point. The block mounted pumps will still pump water, but the head mounted pumps are situated in a location that may no longer have water; but instead have only steam at the pump inlet. Since a water pump cannot pump steam, at this point, the high-mounted pumps are no longer able to deliver fluid flow to the radiator, and cannot correct the (overheating) situation even with the vehicle at rest and the engine running at "fast idle". I don't believe that Ford moved the pumps to save money (by combining pump and engine mount), but rather, to put the pump where it would do the most good. No modern engine has a water pump located at the high point of the block portion of the cooling system for the same reason. Ford originally put the pump in the cylinder head because that was what worked for them with the Model A, and Model B. Model A's and B's didn't have "boiler tubes" running through their water jackets like the V8 did, so it never became an issue. It took 4 years for Ford to realize their mistake, but the block mounted pump was a major step in the right direction.
|
|
| drkbp | -- 04-26-2011 @ 6:55 PM |
|
Since I have figured this out I will post the spec sheet pertaining to the cooling system too. Both from "The V8 Affair", Ray Miller (1972) Shows where the stats were located for the year model as well as other info.
|
|
| drkbp | -- 04-26-2011 @ 7:08 PM |
|
Stroker, Thank you for your clarification. I thought they pumped the way you described but another post confused the issue for me as I am mostly '35-'36. You were writing while I was trying to load pictures. I think you are spot on about Ford's problem with the head pumps ('32-'36) and the fix began in '37. The plates/pages I posted should clear up the thermostat question as well unless more recent research has shown otherwise. New Fords came with thermostats begining in late 1933 and with the 1934 models. 1937's had them down at/by the water pump is what the data says that I posted. Ken in Texas
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 04-26-2011 @ 8:13 PM |
|
Ken, you and I seem to be confusing things quite sufficiently! Yes, of course you are right about direction of flow. Thermostats, since their introduction in 1933, have been at the top, nearest the source of the heat they were required to measure and attempt to control. Your turn. Alan
|
|
| drkbp | -- 04-27-2011 @ 4:57 AM |
|
Alan you are right. I believe this one has been thought to pieces. We probably need to move on to oil or something before total confusion sets in. Oil and distributors vs. coils can launch the Model T Forum group. <grin> Enjoyed this thread and I learned a thing or two. Ken in Texas
|
|
| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-27-2011 @ 11:52 AM |
|
Ddrnkp the 37-48 FORDS 85hp the thermostats are in the head in the outlet, the hoses holds then in position, hope this clears this up, 37RAGTOPMAN
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=2888 |