| Tim I | -- 04-03-2011 @ 6:52 PM |
|
I noticed my coupe seems to sit a little lopsided in the back. I measured from the top of the axle housing to the frame kick-up next to the rubber bumpers, and the drivers side is 1 inch lower than the passenger side. I can't see anything obvious by way of adjustment. Is there any way to correct this? As always, any insight would be much appreciated! Tim
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 04-03-2011 @ 8:34 PM |
|
Tim, your problem is much more common than you can imagine. There are many factors that contribute to the "drunken horse" syndrome that plague so many Fords of the early years, so I will attempt to list the ones I can remember in order of relevance. 1- Transverse springs... Number one, top of the list, the single feature of the early Ford that made it so unbeatable, so indestructible, so much fun to drive, and so lopsided. When one side of the car depends on the other for stability, it's always a fight to see which comes out on top. Fords will lean, so get over it. Maintenance helps a lot here. Springs get weak, they wear grooves on each other preventing full flexibility, and they break. Lubrication is not easy, and attachment to the frame can loosen, making all other reasons unimportant. 2- Hoiudaille shock absorbers... Like transverse springs, Houdaille shocks are pure Ford, provide really great, arguably the very best spring control, and are chock full of problems. They freeze up, they get out of adjustment, they leak, they never get filled with the right fluid, and are all but impossible to rebuild without sending in the Marines. 3- This is really a stretch here, but running a weak 3rd is everything else... Tire inflation, overweight driver (who, me?}, parking on a side hill, I don't know, just squint cockeyed and lean the same direction as your Ford! Seriously, go through the suspension from ground up and you'll find so many maintenance issues that affect the stance of your Ford, and they all fight against each other to make your Ford look like Smoky the Drunken Horse in "Cat Ballou" Alan
|
|
| supereal | -- 04-03-2011 @ 9:27 PM |
|
I can't can't top that, Alan! A Ford does lean 99.9 percent of the time, but short of joining Jenny Craig, you can turn the spring end for end, which usually helps. While you have the spring out, take it apart and examine it for one or more broken leaves. They usually can't be seen while the spring is assembled, but one or more will cause the car to list.
|
|
| joe b | -- 04-04-2011 @ 6:01 AM |
|
Speaking of Hoiudaille shocks what do recommend for fluid to add/refill?
|
|
| TomO | -- 04-04-2011 @ 7:17 AM |
|
The people that rebuilt my shocks, recommended hydraulic jack oil. Other re-builders have other recommendations. Tom
|
|
| Tim I | -- 04-04-2011 @ 9:36 AM |
|
Thanks for all the information. For now, I will just consider the lean to be a "feature," as I tackle other more pressing issues, like 40-year old tires, exhaust leaks, and worn kingpins... Tim
|
|
| supereal | -- 04-04-2011 @ 10:22 AM |
|
The original fluid was some kind of glycerine-based stuff. Adding oil to lever shocks seldom produces much improvement unless they have been rebuilt.
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 04-04-2011 @ 4:49 PM |
|
There were three different fluids used in the Houdailles, and refilling with the wrong one could produce cottage cheese. With modern fluids such as hydraulic jack fluid now being used, that many more versions of cottage cheese can result unless the shock has been rebuilt and starts fresh with the modern fluid. The three original fluids were: Castor oil, glycerin, and mineral oil. Each fluid was identified for refill by a specific plug, round for castor oil, square for glycerin, and dome for mineral oil. Over the years, and as shocks were rebuilt, plugs could be mismatched to different shocks, so this info is just food for thought, not a recommendation for fluid identification today. Alan
|
|
| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-05-2011 @ 5:12 AM |
|
tim I do not forget to check the front end,for anything,like spring, shackles. shocks, etc, all four corners should be measured to be accurate. also I have a question, if you get out of the car, and rock the car, does in still lean to the left,,? you might have one good shock and one that does nothing, if you know somebody with a drive on lift, would help, this way to know it is level just do not go by the ground, also Motorcycle shops sell SHOCK oil in many different weights, so if you can ajust your shocks by going to a heavier oil or lighter depending on what resistence you want hope this helps 37RAGTOPMAN This message was edited by 37RAGTOPMAN on 4-5-11 @ 5:46 AM
|
|
| Tim I | -- 04-05-2011 @ 10:33 AM |
|
I do have a drive-on lift, so will also check the front carefully. And, I'll do the rocking test you suggest and see if it always settles to the left. Thanks for the suggestions! Tim
|
|
| 39Tudor | -- 04-10-2011 @ 11:12 AM |
|
Yeah, mine will settle whichever way I push it. Not an issue yet, since it isn't running, and fortunately when I push it to the center it stays there, too. The suspension seems stiff when I push down on the front or rear but seems like it will have a lot of body roll when I get it on the road.
|
|
| 39Tudor | -- 04-10-2011 @ 11:14 AM |
|
Yeah, mine will settle whichever way I push it. Not an issue yet, since it isn't running, and fortunately when I push it to the center it stays there, too. The suspension seems stiff when I push down on the front or rear but seems like it will have a lot of body roll when I get it on the road. This message was edited by 39Tudor on 4-10-11 @ 11:22 AM
|
|
| supereal | -- 04-10-2011 @ 2:46 PM |
|
If the car stays where you push it, it can be a sign of problems with one or both springs. The springs depend on the leaves sliding on top of one another as they are flexed, and so they can rebound. More often than not, pits have formed where the ends of the leaves above have worn from years of gathering dirt and rust, effectively locking the springs into one big hunk. In some cases, a broken tie bolt, the one that holds the spring together in the middle, is broken, and only the U bolts are holding the spring together, allowing the spring to become off center. This is particularly true of the springs that have lost their arch from decades of use. Disassembly is called for, with repair and or replacement as necessary. Often, the shocks, particularly the lever type, have deteriorated and hastened spring damage by permitting excessive and rapid flexing.
|
|
| Stroker | -- 04-10-2011 @ 3:42 PM |
|
Tim I: Those of us who grew up with pre 49 Fords have dealt with this issue all our lives. The Ford transverse spring set-up is a carryover from the buggy. No other major automobile manufacturer ever used this system. Buggies lean; Fords lean. The upside is that no other system accommodated the road conditions that made Ford's famous, particularly in the Model T era. The twisting forces caused by say, the right front and left rear both being in a rural bottomless pothole were easily handled by the Fords, while other contemporary cars would transfer these opposite loads to either twist the frame/body, or simply get stuck, because the rear tire in the hole couldn't reach the bottom for traction. Having said this, I believe that O'l Henry embraced the idea that Fords should be "torsionally" flexible, long after the need existed. The idea that the front axle would have a high degree of freedom to twist due to the ball at the apex of the wishbone; and the rear axle likewise could twist around the ball at the front of the torque tube, made a lot of practical sense before most roads were paved. Our Fords are blessed or(cursed)with this feature that modern off-road Jeep enthusiasts deal with today by disconnecting their anti-roll bars. It is part of the heritage of the Early Ford.
|
|
| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-10-2011 @ 5:14 PM |
|
stoker CORVETTEs used a tranverse rear spring in the rear, GM used these for many years 1963 up, my 3 cents 37RAGTOPMAN
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 04-10-2011 @ 6:00 PM |
|
Ragtop, While you are correct in that the Corvette adopted transverse springs in 1963, what you missed in that revelation was that they abandoned the solid rear axle at that time. Independent axles change the geometry more than the configuration of the springs themselves. Alan
|
|
| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-11-2011 @ 4:43 AM |
|
stroker. I sold my 66 L79 CORVETTE CONV, about 1 1/2 years ago. owned it for 4 years, yes you are correct about the rear suspension,with independent trailing arms,they are high maintence, but it did have a transverse spring, if your springs and suspension is in good condition,in your FORD you do not get a lot of lean, its were you have worn parts and stiff suspension ,bad shocks or frozen shocks,, etc,binding shackles etc, from lack of use,that it will lean My 3 cents,,,37 RAGTOPMAN and keep on FORDIN,,,!!!!
|
|
| Stroker | -- 04-11-2011 @ 5:55 AM |
|
Well folks, my statement regarding the application of a transverse spring obviously was a little too absolute. What I probably should have said was that Ford was the only one to embrace the "Three-Point-Suspension" both front and rear. In 1940, they did address it's overly liberal freedom of movement by installing a torsional anti-roll bar in the front to limit body roll in corners, but it was kind of a stop-gap measure to squeeze a few more years out of a buggy suspension. I guess I didn't consider an IRS with a transverse monoleaf quite the same as a buggy suspension, nor would I consider the early 90's GM midsize FWD cars (Regal, Monte Carlo, etc.) that used a similar fibreglass monoleaf at the rear as well. My daughter had one of these fail on her 92 Regal, and it was akin to losing both rear wheels. I'm a great fan of the early Ford suspension, and it will handle just about any horrible road condition you can throw at it. I does, however lean in crosswinds, corners, and sometimes while just resting in the driveway.
|
|
| MOXIE | -- 04-11-2011 @ 7:32 AM |
|
My car has the same problem, as does nearly every other old ford. I fliped my springs and it still leans toward the driver side. I wonder, after having only the driver sit on that side for nearly 70 years, if the frame might be a little twisted. It would be interesting which side the austria cars dip.
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 04-11-2011 @ 11:13 PM |
|
Moxie, the Aussie Fords don't lean to either side. They are suspended upside down and hang straight as a plumb bob. Alan
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=2861 |