| lubinsk | -- 03-21-2011 @ 4:16 PM |
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I am going to do a complete brake job on my 1946 convertible. I want to put synthetic fluid in the system. Do I have to replace all cylinders including the master cylinder? Or just clean them out? I have been told I can do it either way. What should I use to clean the brake lines out? Do the rubber hoses need to be replaced? Thanks John Lubinski
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 03-21-2011 @ 4:59 PM |
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SYNTHETIC brake fluid will mix with regular fluid, VALVEOLINE $5.00 A quart, makes it.[says this on the label that it will mix with no problems ] I have used and it works great,replace your rubber hoses and rebuild or replace your master and wheel cylinders, bleed the system and you are done,!!!. . if you want to use silicone brake fluid,$20.00 a quart and maybe more, That is a completely different story.,I have used and ended up with many problems, other have used and love it, but for me I will use it no more, ESP on a older car, follow the directions, replace with everything NEW, hope this helps 37RAGTOPMAN
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| supereal | -- 03-21-2011 @ 5:15 PM |
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When you say "synthetic" do you mean silicone? In my opinion, based on experience, staying with common DOT 3 is the least expensive and the easiest way to go. Just flush with new fluid every two or three years, and it will be trouble free. This message was edited by supereal on 3-21-11 @ 5:21 PM
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| Pauls39 | -- 03-21-2011 @ 7:03 PM |
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John, As you are doing a complete brake job anyway, you may as well replace all the cylinders and hoses. That way they will likely last the life of the car. Dot 5 fluid won't adsorb water like Dot 3. It works well for our old cars preventing rust from forming in the brake system. It is more expensive to begin with but you don't need to flush it out every two or three years. As a bonus it won't attack your paint job like conventional fluid.
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| Gary M. | -- 03-21-2011 @ 7:07 PM |
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I have been a long time Ford owner (both old and newer)and have always had trouble with Ford brake cylinders corroding and pitting. I thought the moisture was forming behind the dust boot but I never realised that moisture collects in the DOT 3 brake fluid. Im not sure flushing the system every 2 to 3 years is the answer to preventing this problem. I replaced the entire brake system on my 39 Standard and store it in a heated garage. A year and a half later I took a wheel off to check the brakes and found leakage and pitting in a brand new brake cylinder. I am not replacing the system again until I find a way to prevent this costly problem. Fluids that do not retain moisture and sleeved cylinders would be a welcome change,however there is no garantee that these products will deliver what they advertise. Are there any companies that test and rate these products? My next letter will be to Valvoline in reference to this new fluid. Any other research that anyone has done would be helpful. Thanks....
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| alanwoodieman | -- 03-21-2011 @ 8:20 PM |
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how about 20 years on one car (40 wagon), almost 22 years on another car (40 sedan),30 years one another car (40 sedan also) silicone brake fluid no moisture, no pits and no hose deteriation. I know the idea of flushing fluid every three years appeals to some, but we all know that it will not happen for most of us. Do it right the first time and you won't have to do it again.
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| supereal | -- 03-22-2011 @ 8:36 AM |
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I have no quarrel with anyone who wants to convert to DOT5 (silicone) fluid, but we don't do it because of the problem with "air entraining", which is small bubbles in the fluid that usually produce a "soft" brake pedal. It is true that DOT3 is "hydroscopic" and can attact moisture, but more often than not, this is due to the failure to always use unopened containers of fluid when filling and bleeding the system. We use a pressure bleeder that holds the fluid in a bladder so no air contact is produced. Another problem is seepage, often at the brake light switch. Given the amount of fluid necessary to fully bleed a brake system that has been evacuated, DOT5 will also drain your wallet. If you do plan to use DOT5, all DOT3 must be removed, and the the lines flushed with alcohol. The best practice is to replace the master and wheel cylinders, as well as the three hoses, to eliminate contamination, which will ruin most advantages of the silicone fluid. Finally, don't shake or otherwise agitate the DOT5 container, or it is likely you will never get a firm pedal.
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| TomO | -- 03-22-2011 @ 9:01 AM |
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DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 are all glycol based brake fluids. They will all absorb some moisture. There are DOT 5.1 fluids that claim to have corrosion inhibitors that will last 10 years. DOT 5.1 has a higher boiling point than DOT 3 or 4, but this is not necessary with normal street driving, it does become an advantage in mountainous country and on the race track. DOT 4 has a higher boiling point than DOT 3. DOT 5 is silicone based and does not absorb water. Some people claim that the moisture that condenses in the open brake systems of antique cars will pool in low spots in the system and cause brake system failure. My car has had DOT 5 since 1980 and I have not seen any corrosion in the system. My master cylinder failed in 1999, but there were no pits in the cylinder, the rubber had just deteriorated. I put it down to poor reproduction parts in the late 70's. DOT 5 will entrain air and cause a spongy pedal. You must pour the fluid in the master cylinder very slowly and release the pedal slowly when bleeding the system. The pedal with DOT 5 will never feel as hard as with DOT 3. IMHO go with either DOT 3 and flush every other year or go with DOT 5 and be satisfied with a slightly spongy pedal. DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 do not justify their extra cost in a car driven on the street. Tom
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 03-22-2011 @ 9:10 AM |
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more info for brake job, NAPA sells a lube sealer, comes in little capsules,these contain a jelly like brake grease, you should use this under the boots on the wheel cylinders and master cylinder, this is also keeps water entering under from the rubber boots,and lubes the wheel cylinders, I used the silicone brake fluid in a 48 CHEV wagon for a customer,I replaced everything, all lines, all new cylinders,everything, a year later he brought if back to me the pedal was a little low, I tried to bleed it, the brake pedal stuck at the bottom on the first pump, I rebuilt the master, which was new a year before, bleed the brakes again with reg brake fluid, problem solved, the other thing, you will have to install a mechanial stop light switch, seems the silicone fluid destroys the hydraulic stoplight switch, or will have to buy one from HARLEY DAVIDSON,I have heard these are the problem solver,for the stoplight switch problem, hope this helps,have had reg brake fluid in my 37 since 1979, have recdone the brakes only 2 times in this time,because of idle and not used,only drive in in season, I am with superreal on using reg brake fluid or DOT 5 synthic fluid, but NOT silicone brake fluid, this is my 3 cents worth, 37RAGTOPMAN I ENCLOSED a picture of what I use,go to the auto store read the label, also.motorcycles use silicone brake fluid, and have CLOSED brake system.and it works well in them, This message was edited by 37RAGTOPMAN on 3-22-11 @ 4:16 PM
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| supereal | -- 03-22-2011 @ 12:08 PM |
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Silicone brake fluid was developed for aircraft use to reduce or eliminate the fade and/or loss of braking caused by the very high heat generated by the brakes upon landing. Some enterprising old car guys decided it would reduce maintenance problems, even if the system wasn't engineered for silicone. I can see its use if you are driving in mountains, etc, but ordinary use usually doesn't have problems if the brakes are in good condition. Original drum brake systems have functioned very well for decades. If your driving style exceeds their limits, the best bet is conversion to a dual system with discs.
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| 42guy | -- 03-22-2011 @ 6:44 PM |
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I can verify what Supereal and others mean about the entrapped air in the silicone fluid. I worked in the quality lab for a company that made the fluid. It was along process to remove the entrained air so it could be tested. We first made it for the military.
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| Pauls39 | -- 03-22-2011 @ 8:52 PM |
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My 39 coupe has had silicone brake fluid in it since it was restored in 1988. The fluid is still clear. I replaced one wheel cylinder last year because of a leak in the rubber boot . The other wheel cylinders and the master are fine. There was no rust in the system. I have helped two other members bleed the brakes on their cars one a 1940 the other a 1948, both had been restored within the last 10 years. Both cars had rusty brown Dot 3 fluid and both cars needed new cylinders or new lines. Just reporting my experience. Buying Dot 5 once was more expensive, but changing Dot 3 every 3 years for 25 years would be even more so. Besides I don't have to get in an argument with the old lady every 3 years about pumping the brakes!
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