| fortyford | -- 03-16-2011 @ 9:02 PM |
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I have had the starter to lock up sometimes when starting my 40.I have to rock the car in gear until I here it break loose,then it will start up ok.I have not pulled starter off yet.I am hoping it is just the drive!Has anyone else had this problem?
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 03-17-2011 @ 4:57 AM |
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fortyford, I am assuming the car runs good and the timing is right, no worn timing gears.etc, and it is a V8 right 60 or 85hp ?,and is the car 12 volts, with a 6 volt starter.? I would pull the starter, look at the starter drive and see if it is defective. also check for maybe bent starter shaft. also rotate the flywheel LOOK for Worn out teeth on the ring gear. go all the way around, usually there are 3 spots that will have wear on the flywheel the ring gear with worn teeth, usually is the problem, the ring gear will have to be replaced, at that time I would also rebuild the starter, this will require in pulling the engine, a nice winter time project for next year, hope this helps 37RAGTOPMAN
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| 42wagon | -- 03-17-2011 @ 7:04 AM |
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fortyford I believe your problem is worn teeth on the ring gear. Years ago I worked for someone that had a well used Ford pickup truck. Often enough so we knew what to do the starter would lockup. The solution was to rock the truck back and forth until you heard/ felt the starter free up. Then it would be fine until the next time. I also had the same problem with a Model A and found worn teeth on the ring gear. Your choice would be to remove either the engine or transmission to get at the flywheel. I believe either way will work. Ted
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| supereal | -- 03-17-2011 @ 10:17 AM |
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Before you pull the engine to replace the ring gear, take a close look at the starter drive. It should be free from oil and dirt, and the gear should move freely on the shaft. Be sure the spring ("Bendix") is intact, and secured to the starter shaft with the correct shoulder bolts and locks. Even if an examination reveals that teeth on the ring gear are bad, the starter drive will be, as well, and probably contributed to the ring gear damage. If there is excess leakage at the rear main, oil is slung into the flywheel, and soon it is covered with crud. Eventually, this affects the starter drive. Finally, be sure that the support bracket that goes between the starter and an oil pan bolt is there. This reduces any twisting of the starter under load which will often lock it to the ring gear,
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| alanwoodieman | -- 03-17-2011 @ 4:11 PM |
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do you have the small bracket between starter and oil pan? stater itself could be moving enough to lock up
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| wrosenkrans | -- 03-18-2011 @ 6:56 AM |
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I have the same problem occasionally with my Model A Roadster. Apparently the engine tends to stop at two points 180 degrees from each other on the ring gear. Those points wear more quickly than the rest of the gear due to the constant point of engagement with the starter. The V8's apparently exhibit the same phenomena. I just live with it for now knowing I have to rock it every not and then. Wayne & Barb '42 Super De Luxe Tudor
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| TomO | -- 03-18-2011 @ 8:47 AM |
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Alanwoodieman had the easiest and most likely solution to the starter lock up problem. The missing bracket will cause the starter housing to move enough to change the clearance between the drive and the ring gear. The thin bolts holding the starter to the oil pan flex under load to cause this problem. The bracket fits between the starter bolt and a pan bolt. It is being reproduced as P/N 51A-11140. Tom
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| fortyford | -- 03-21-2011 @ 9:06 PM |
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I just wanted to give an up date on my starter problem. I pulled the starter and the small thin spring was gone on the drive.Also,there was no starter support bracket installed.I got a new drive and bracket and I figured since I had the starter off it should be checked as far as the brushes,bushings and all.Thanks for all the help. This message was edited by fortyford on 3-21-11 @ 9:08 PM
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| TomO | -- 03-22-2011 @ 8:14 AM |
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Unless you have a 60 HP starter, there is no small thin spring on the starter drive. Just the heavy duty Bendix spring. See https://secure435.hostgator.com/~dlvry40/ufolder/ShowProducts.php?c=1&s=18&g=135&t=1001 for an illustration of the starter drive. Tom
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| fortyford | -- 03-23-2011 @ 6:00 PM |
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The engine is a 59AB (95-100HP)That illustration shows the small spring at the gear.I got a repo from Carpenters and it has the spring on it!I don't quiet understand what you are saying TomO.
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| TomO | -- 03-24-2011 @ 10:26 AM |
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I have 2 NOS Ford starter drives and neither of them has a small thin spring, just the heavy duty Bendix spring, P/N B-11375, to return the starter drive to the disengaged position. Dennis Carpenter has a clearer picture in his online catalog. http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?Parta~PartSort~A0~cadefffQ~~~~A40~A31 I only see one spring in the illustration. . I do see the grooves for the gear move and turn as it engages the flywheel. I do not understand the need for an additional spring or what function it would provide. The 60 HP stater drive is completely different. Tom
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| supereal | -- 03-24-2011 @ 1:38 PM |
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According to a Ford service bulletin #11000, there was a Briggs and Stratton drive (91A-11350)called a "rubber" drive for the full sized engine in 1940. It is shown on page 17, subject 11350, dated Aug. 1, 1941, that resembled the 60HP drive. It had a 10 tooth gear, as opposed to the "52" unit on the 60HP, which had 9 teeth. This drive was superceded by the more common Bendix drive B-11350 for replacement, and had a light spring in addition to the usual kind. I've never seen one, but I heard of them many years ago. This message was edited by supereal on 3-24-11 @ 1:41 PM
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| fortyford | -- 03-24-2011 @ 5:44 PM |
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Sorry,I gave wrong information about the new starter drive.It was purchased from Mac's Auto.Check out the attachment.Has anyone used a drive like this?
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| TomO | -- 03-25-2011 @ 8:00 AM |
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It is hard to tell what is different about your starter drive from the drawing in Mac's catalog. Does it have a spring instead of the drive grooves to rotate the gear as it engages the flywheel? If so, I would be reluctant to use it on my car. I would rather have the the grooves to rotate the gear, as the original drive has. Tom
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