| tbirdhandyman | -- 12-31-2010 @ 8:48 AM |
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I am going to try to start a T-99 that has not run for 20 years, but is free with fresh oil, and oil has been put into the spark plug holes. The water pumps are stuck, so I will try it without the fan belt. I thought I would replace the coil, cond, carburator and use a 1 quart container for gasoline, as you cannot get air from the fuel pump back to the gas tank. What am I missing, and let me know your suggestions, please. The "T-99" is an early Mercury engine. I used the Ford discussion, as it has more viewers than the Mercury discussion. Thanks, Robert E. p.s. I will install new spark plugs. Tbirdhandyman This message was edited by tbirdhandyman on 12-31-10 @ 9:04 AM
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| alanwoodieman | -- 12-31-2010 @ 10:06 AM |
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a few suggestions, remove all spark plugs, attache a mechanical oil pressure guage, turn engine over until pressure is seen on gauge-assuming you cleaned out the filter, changed to fresh oil/filter. I would use MMO in the cylinders, probably remove distributor from engine and at least clean/polish the points, check and clean coil brush, run straight 6 volts to coil, use new or at least clean gaped plugs, make sure you use fresh gas, preferable without ethanol, pull out two plugs on bottom of fuel bowl on carb and check for trash, I have a one gallon metal can with a hose connection that I use to crank engines and I hang this above car and don't use the fuel pump, just gravity
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| Old Henry | -- 12-31-2010 @ 10:47 AM |
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This would not probably be the "paranoid/overly cautious" approach that others might suggest but here's all I did to start my '47 V8 after THIRTY ONE YEARS: Changed the oil and filter, cleaned the carburetor, replaced the battery, and fired it up with the same spark plugs that had been in there over 31 years, same fan belts that were mighty darn frayed, the generator only had half a pulley, but it started. A big puff of dust came out of the radiator, the generator charged, and we all screamed the line from "Young Frankenstein" - "IT'S ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!" What a glorious moment! Old Henry (The older I get, the better old looks.)
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| supereal | -- 12-31-2010 @ 12:25 PM |
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Back when the junkyards were full of engines, it was a challenge to see if we could start a very old one. Now that those days are long gone, taking a chance of damage can be very expensive. The usual sludge has solidified, rust has grown on the cylinder walls, and the piston rings are glued to the grooves. If the vehicle is worth the investment, the engine should be pulled and disassembled to clean it out, and to examine the condition of the internal parts, such as bearings, rings, and valves. All seals, belts, and hoses must be replaced, and the carb taken apart and fitted with a kit. At our shop, we have seen lots of "barn" engines, and usually discover that the reason it was parked was because something went wrong, in the first place. All of this may seem like overkill, but the first few revolutions of a long silent engine can mean the difference between fixing and junking.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 12-31-2010 @ 1:57 PM |
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When you drained the oil was there any water or coolant in it? if not I would pull the plugs and take a compression test, to see what is happening inside the engine, like sticking valves, V8 FORDS are noted for valves sticking when sitting for long periods of time, these can be freed up, by using rust buster,and working the valves by using a probe, like a scew driver pushing the valve back down,keep thisup till the valve returns by itself, if you find low compression, squirt a little oil in the cylinder and take another compression test,if it comes up you might have some stuck rings, running the engine might free them up in a few miles, I have started many V8 FORD ENGINE, with out any problems like ruining the engine, just make sure you have oil pressure, and coolant in it, and observe the engine , when it starts, like any sudden noises, using a remote gas supply is a smart thing to do, this will rule out any fuel supply issues, making the engine start faster, turn the engine over and see if you have any spark,if you do, have the distributer rebuilt along with the coil at a later time, why fix if it works, but doing it later for when you want to tour and go on long trips is a wise thing to do so you have no problems tapping on the water pump pulleys. might free them up, putting water in the coolant system before starting and letting sit for a few day might free, them up, you have to remember have been dry for 20 years, and adding coolant and let sitting might free them up, you can try to turn them.if they leak you will have to remove and have them rebuilt, I recommend to have the originals rebuilt verus installing Chinese parts on the car, hope this helps. 37 RAGTOPMAN an KEEP on FORDIN,,,!!! This message was edited by 37RAGTOPMAN on 12-31-10 @ 2:02 PM
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| Old Henry | -- 12-31-2010 @ 3:48 PM |
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And now - for "the rest of the story" as PH used to say. FOREVER YOUNG? Remember that 1992 movie in which Mel Gibson was sealed in a container for 30 years and when he came out he was just like he was when he went in 30 years before? Same young age and everything working great? Well, that's how my '47 Ford was after I started it up after 31 years with very little preparation as described above. But, remember the rest of the movie? Suddenly Mel started to age 30 years rapidly to catch up to the age he should have been when he came out of the container. Well, that's how the old '47 Ford was. Everything worked great when we started him up and continued for some time. But, then, quite suddently, everything began to fall apart. Many of the ignition parts started to fail such that we eventually replaced the plugs, plug wires, points, condenser, coil, rotor, and distributor cap. Then it was the cooling system. It started to leak and we ended up replacing the radiator, heater coil, water pumps, and radiator hoses. It was just a couple years later that the engine compression got so low we couldn't keep it going and totally rebuilt the engine, transmission, and drive line. Forever young? We thought so. But, it wasn't so. Strange similarity though to Mel Gibson in the movie. Old Henry (The older I get, the better old looks.)
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| TomO | -- 01-01-2011 @ 8:35 AM |
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I agree with Supereal, Remove the engine from the car and disassemble it, clean and inspect everything and then do a quality overhaul. Old Henry's experience is typical, the engine starts and runs, but then the ravages of time will show up. The rust in the cylinder walls will tear up the rings, the valves will burn due to poor seating, etc. Tom
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| Old Henry | -- 01-01-2011 @ 8:56 AM |
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I did get 10,000 miles out of that engine that started and ran after 31 years before having to rebuild it. I didn't fix it 'till it was broke. (If it ain't broke, don't fix it.) Old Henry (The older I get, the better old looks.)
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| supereal | -- 01-01-2011 @ 11:05 AM |
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OH: You lucked out. Too often, someone brings us an old engine that they tried to start. Scored bearings and cylinder walls are the usual result. Too often, the engine draining was neglected and then it froze, leaving cracks in the block that can't be seen, allowing coolant to either seep or gush into the oil pan when the system is filled. A complete overhaul isn't cheap, even if the block and crank are intact, but if your vehicle is worth restoring, there is no substitute.
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| tbirdhandyman | -- 01-06-2011 @ 10:54 AM |
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I let the owner of this '40 Merc read all of the good advice that was given on the topic. He said: lets give it a try. The drained oil was very clean, with just a small amount of sludge in the bottom of the oil filter canister. One thing that jumped out at me was the oil pump screen was just above the oil drain hole. I have never noticed this on any of my flatheads. You could not get a finger in to check for sludge on bottom of pan. I used my Snap-On visual insp. device to inspect the cylinder bores and the action of the valves. Everything looked good. We installed new plugs and when I ran a jumper to the coil, I did not get a spark. I tried two other known good coils with the same results. I checked the cond & it was good. I installed a good dist and I got a spark when I touched the coil terminal. I put the original Argintina coil back on and would now get the spark. I put 2 table spoons full of gasoline in the carb throat (after removeing the front drains and flushing out the bowl) hit my remote starter switch and the the engine fired up after 2-3 turns. That is where I stopped. Next I am going to install a good carb (off my '41) and replace the water pumps befor attempting to let it run. I left the top off of the filter to see if any oil came into it, but it did not. It only ran about 3 seconds befor running out of gasoline. Comments welcome. Robert E. Tbirdhandyman
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| supereal | -- 01-06-2011 @ 2:39 PM |
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You may find that the oil pump intake has come loose from the body of the pump and dropped into the bottom of the pan. This is not unusual. We braze the intake tube to the pump to be sure it doesn't part. The connection is a swedge on the tube which lets go with age. It may be the reason the engine was parked in the first place, and why no oil arrived at the filter.
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| Stroker | -- 01-06-2011 @ 4:02 PM |
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Super's on to something. No, you shouldn't be able to view the screen through the drain hole; and no oil getting to the filter housing should violently wave a red flag. It's time to pull the pan, and it's also time to look at some rod and main bearings. A bore scope is a wonderful tool for peering into a cylinder to see cylinder wall condition, valve seats, etc., but the biggest risk to this engine is probably not cylinder corrosion,(or lack thereof), but how long it ran without oil pressure, because just a few seconds of dry conditions will "wipe" the worlds best insert bearings. I'm going to fire up a similar engine that I have had in storage for about the same period of time. Yes, I'm going to check on the cylinder bores with a bore scope, even though I "pickled" the engine 20 years ago. If the bores look suspicious, I'll pull the heads. If it passes this inspection, I would look for oil pressure to come up immediately.
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