| wrosenkrans | -- 11-08-2010 @ 1:05 PM |
|
We got our new '42 Super Deluxe Tudor home and in the garage on Sunday. Although the transport folks said they had lots of trouble starting her up to get her on the transporter, we had no problems on this end - starts right up using the protocol in the various manuals, etc. and runs very sweetly (I suspect they were flooding her). Now I'm getting around to check things out. All fluids are topped up except the oil is very black and ready for a change - I'll get to that this weekend. The gauges all function properly when the car is first started. Shut the car off and then restart and they don't register correctly except the Charge gauge. Let the car sit for a couple hours and restart and the gauges all register. Some kind of heat related short? The brakes are very sloppy. I plan to do the adjusting as in the manuals at each wheel, then replace the fluid and bleed the system. Is there a particular brake fluid that is optimal for these cars (I'm used to the mechanicals on the Model A)? I sense to stay away from silicone fluids? Any helpful hints on replacing the fluid, bleeding and adjusting the system? All help greatly appreciated. Wayne & Barb '42 Super De Luxe Tudor
|
|
| nelsb01 | -- 11-08-2010 @ 2:02 PM |
|
The discussion maybe currently against silicone brake fluid due to the brake light switch, but let me tell you, that in 12 years of using silicone brake fluid, I have had no problems what so ever. If your car sits for any period of time -- say winter -- then do yourself a favor and go silicone. You will enjoy your car all the more and not have to worry about corrosion in the lines and wheel cylinders.
|
|
| alanwoodieman | -- 11-08-2010 @ 3:55 PM |
|
make sure the "brush" in your ingnition switch is clean. the gauges are actually fed electricity thru a sepaerate part of the ign switch. When the gauges are not working move the switch lever just a little and see if that makes them work. I know my 40 some times does that
|
|
| TomO | -- 11-08-2010 @ 4:48 PM |
|
Check the current fluid in the reservoir. Silicone fluid is light purple when new and feels slippery between your fingers. DOT 3 fluid feels kind of sticky. Only add the same fluid as found in the reservoir. DOT 3 and DOT 5 do not mix. If you are going to do a complete brake rebuild, I would go with silicone DOT 5 fluid if your car is stored for winter. If you use DOT 3, and store your car, you should flush the system at least every other year. To flush the system, use a turkey baster to remove the fluid from the master cylinder, then fill it with appropriate fluid. Start with the passenger side rear wheel. Connect a clear vinyl hoes to the bleeder screw and submerge the end on the hose in fresh brake fluid. Open the bleeder screw about 1/2 turn and have an assistant push the brake pedal to the floor and hold it. Tighten the bleeder screw and repeat the procedure at the same wheel until fresh brake fluid comes out without any air bubbles in the fluid. Fill the master cylinder after pressing the pedal to the floor 2 times and after all wheels have been flushed. Next in sequence will be the drivers side rear, front passenger side and finally the front drivers side. I would check the connections behind the dash to repair the gauge problem. Pay special attention to the grounding connections. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 11-8-10 @ 4:49 PM
|
|
| oldford2 | -- 11-08-2010 @ 5:16 PM |
|
Sounds like this car not been maintained for some time. Here is what I would do: Drain the oil, transmission and rear end and fill with proper fluids. After a few hours of running repeat again. Use detergent oil in the crankcase. Pull all four drums and inspect for brake shoe condition and oil/grease/brake fluid which might mean leaks. You probably have DOT 3 brake fluid in it. Check it out. If so stick with it and give the lines a thorough bleeding. I flush/bleed my brake system every year so there is no moisture/rust problem. A best approach compared to going through the trouble and expense of converting to DOT 5. Some folks don't understand that a yearly flush is simple (1/2 hour work and $5 of brake fluid). Keep in touch and let us know how you are doing. John
|
|
| supereal | -- 11-09-2010 @ 9:47 AM |
|
If you convert to silicone fluid, it is absolutely advisable to install new master and wheel cylinders, as well as flushing the lines with alcohol. Otherwise, any small amount of the DOT3 fluid will contaminate the silicone and defeat the aim of the conversion. It is possible to disassemble the original cylinders and wash them with alcohol, but any pitting, a usual situation, will allow the silicone fluid to seep, and the rubber cups usually will not fully release embedded fluid. Effectively bleeding the brake system on old Fords is best done with a pressure bleeder. Manual bleeding requires lots of fluid, and DOT3 is a whole lot less expensive than DOT5. I know some owners get along fine with silicone, but we don't do those conversions anymore because almost always they seep, and getting a "hard" pedal is rare.
|
|
| wrosenkrans | -- 11-09-2010 @ 8:42 PM |
|
Thanks very much for the advice guys. I will implement over the weekend and report back on progress. Thinking I will probably go with the DOT3 fluid to avoid the mixing problems. What is the best oil filter to use? Fram C4 was mentioned in an earlier thread. Should I drop the pan and clean sludge, or is that asking for problems? Wayne & Barb '42 Super De Luxe Tudor
|
|
| oldford2 | -- 11-10-2010 @ 3:50 AM |
|
Just let the detergent oil eat away at the sludge. Change oil frequently. Trying to scr*pe out the sludge may loosen some globs that might clog some oil passages. Dropping the pan on your car is not an easy task. John
|
|
| supereal | -- 11-10-2010 @ 8:37 AM |
|
If you have the canister type oil filter, is requires the replaceable element. We use the NAPA #1006, which is actually a Wix made piece. Usually, we have to special order them, but as they are also used on Ford tractors, they are still being made. For the record, I have never seen a defective Fram filter. I've seen them blamed when an old gasket wasn't removed before installing a new filter, and when someone got heavy handed and tightened the spin on filter with a wrench, instead of by hand and ripped the joint between the cap and the can. If a Fram filter is defective, the company will usually stand behind the repair if it is proven the filter was, in fact, defective.
|
|
| Stroker | -- 11-10-2010 @ 9:20 AM |
|
It's been a very long time since I've used a Fram in a canister; so long ago that they still had the cotton-waste filter media. With a by-pass system like you have, the filter construction isn't as critical as a spin-on, as the canister contains anything that might come adrift, and if the filter clogs, it will simply stop filtering without affecting the oil supply to the bearings. Having said that, I believe the better brands are Baldwin, Wix/Napa, and Purelator. If you go to the EV8 Regional Golden Gate Chapter website: www.goldengatev8.org , Alan has posted a definitive article comparing various brands.
|
|
| TomO | -- 11-11-2010 @ 7:40 AM |
|
Wayne, Do not put any brake fluid in your master cylinder until you determine what is currently in there. Mixing DOT 3 and DOT 5 will give you serious brake problems. Tom
|
|
| wrosenkrans | -- 11-12-2010 @ 4:12 AM |
|
When was the switch to DOT 5 made? Given the state of the oil in this car and the very soft brakes, I doubt very much there's been alot of maintenance done - its been in two large private collections for quite some time. Its highly unlikely it was ever switched over from DOT 3. Wayne & Barb '42 Super De Luxe Tudor
|
|
| supereal | -- 11-12-2010 @ 10:56 AM |
|
DOT5 was never used on the assembly line, as far as I know. Silicone fluid was developed for use in aircraft to reduce the prospect of boiling from brake heat, and many used it in their cars to prevent deterioration of the brake system by moisture. The downside is cost and the likelihood of problems in bleeding air out of the system, leading to a "soft" pedal. Just bleeding the DOT3 system every two or three years until the fluid runs clear will keep moisture at bay. Just be sure to always use a fresh, unopened container of fluid. Unless you live in the mountains, and use your brakes very hard, converting probably isn't worth the time and cost.
|
|
| wrosenkrans | -- 11-13-2010 @ 2:28 PM |
|
Well, got the oil changed today and put in the new oil filter (the local NAPA dealer had the NAPA1006 cartridge in stock much to my surprise). What a mess, never seen oil that black before, can't have been doing much for the engine. Put in 4 qts plus a qt in the filter canister, then ran her around the block a few times to get things circulating. Took a good look at the backing plates while under the car and will need to do a fair amount of de-cruding before adjusting and bleeding the system next weekend. Wayne & Barb '42 Super De Luxe Tudor
|
|
| supereal | -- 11-13-2010 @ 3:05 PM |
|
Starting on a new project with an old car is always sort of an archeological expedition, and you usually make such discoveries. Old, barely, or badly, maintained engines are commonly full of sludge, often because non-detergent oil was used. We recommend a couple of fills and changes of an oil designed to deal with deposits, such as Rotella. It is used in diesel engines, and does a good job of cleaning up neglected engines. It comes in 4 qt. jugs, so you will need to buy an extra quart for your car.
|
|
| wrosenkrans | -- 11-25-2010 @ 7:33 AM |
|
Status report: After a week plus, the oil level is holding and the color is now a dirty brown rather than coal black - sign the detergent oil is working I hope. Decruded the front end a bit exposing the grease nipples and the brake adjusters/bleeders. A bit of WD40 loosened up the adjusters and I was able to adjust the brakes which did need some takeup. Still a very soft pedal though and I plan to replace the fluid and bleed on Saturday when the weather is supposed to improve. All the little glitches, like the gauges not operating, appear to be self resolving with some use - probably dirty contacts. Car starts very easy and sounds sweet. Cleaned some surface rust out of the trunk and sprayed some satin black rustoleum, then reshaped the trunk mat and applied some vinyl/rubber conditioner - looks like new. Also did a thorough vacuum of the upholstery which made the colors pop out nicely. Working some leather rejuvenator into the leather trim as well which is making a nice difference. Wayne & Barb '42 Super De Luxe Tudor
|
|
| wrosenkrans | -- 11-27-2010 @ 2:11 PM |
|
Pretty raw here temperature wise, but replaced the brake fluid and bled the system today. NO fluid in the master cylinder to start, and it was evident the rears hadn't been touched in a long time. The fronts, however, had new looking flexible lines and the bleeders were easy to turn. With my daughter working pedal, we followed TomO's instructions - thick, black, goo came out of both rears initially but finally clean fluid. The fronts didn't have the black goo, but did have alot of air in the lines. Went through an entire bottle of fluid, but finally got them all bled. And...we now have a nice hard pedal with nicely effective brakes! With brakes now working, I took her (my daughter named her Ellie, short for Eleanor) out of the neighborhood for the first time and up to speed. Most of the shakes and rattles died down after a couple miles, but there is a slight resonance shake right at 40 mph that rapidly dies down above 40. Next task is to clean and hit all the grease points on the chassis. Wayne & Barb '42 Super De Luxe Tudor
|
|
| supereal | -- 11-27-2010 @ 3:45 PM |
|
If you get "black goo" out of any wheel cylinder, it will have to come out and either be rebuilt or replaced. The "goo" is likely from the piston cups. It is probable that the pistons have corroded, and the bore is pitted, as well. Brakes are too important to take chances with, in any case. Brake cylinders are readily available, and not terribly expensive.
|
|
| trjford8 | -- 11-27-2010 @ 5:33 PM |
|
The shake may be due to old tires. If this car sat for a long time and it had bias belted tires I suspect they have flat spots.
|
|
| TomO | -- 11-28-2010 @ 9:58 AM |
|
In addition to Supereal's advice about the black goo, if your master cylinder was empty, you probably have a leak. NAPA and other parts houses have master and wheel cylinders for your car. The Raybestos P/N for the master cylinder is MC1050, Right front cyl is WC8265, Left front is WC8264, Right rear is WC8267 and Left rear is WC8266. I would also replace all of the flex hoses as they are probably deteriorated as well. You will need the KR Wilson type hub puller to remove the rear drums. This puller clamps on the tapered part of the hub, not the lugs, to pull the hub. Tom
|
|
| wrosenkrans | -- 11-28-2010 @ 11:37 AM |
|
I had my daughter hold pressure on the pedal once I had everything closed up and ran all the lines. I can't find obvious evidence of a leak, and there's absolutely no sign of softness in the pedal, but I also don't want to take any chances. I've ordered a kit from Snyder's which has all the cylinders and other bits. Our local antique car guy here has a well equiped shop with a lift, so I'm going to run it over there when he has a slot in his schedule to replace the cylinders, hit the chassis grease fittings, and do some cleaning/painting underneath. Probably also change the oil again. Only thing not working now is the horn. Any advice on how to run that down? Wayne & Barb '42 Super De Luxe Tudor
|
|
| supereal | -- 11-29-2010 @ 7:58 AM |
|
There is a set of good posts elsewhere here on the Forum on this subject. The horns draw heavy current, so a relay is needed, which often has burned points. The horn ring contact is suspect, as is the wire down thru the steering shaft. The bullet connector at the bottom may have come apart, as well. When the horns on my '47 quit, almost always it was a connector along the inside of the left fender, which I replaced. The horns often have rusty insides and poor contacts, as well.
|
|
| Old Henry | -- 11-29-2010 @ 8:43 AM |
|
Here's the recent thread on the horn problem that's very informative: http://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=2232 Old Henry (The older I get, the better old looks.)
|
|
| cliffgreen | -- 12-01-2010 @ 8:54 AM |
|
I have had the same silicone fluid in my '40 Ford since 1976!! Use a Harley Davidson brake light switch to solve any problems. It has a spade fittings instead of bullets.
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=2146 |