| ravi.avalur | -- 10-26-2010 @ 9:46 AM |
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I have just begun restoration of my great great grandmother's 1937 Ford Phaeton. Amongst the many original documents, I have the purchase receipt for the car. The purchase receipt records the car as a green deluxe convertible. I have a few questions for you experts out there on this forum: a) having no roll-up windows, am I correct to assume that it is a Phaeton? b) the car is right hand drive (as it was supplied to India), built by Ford of Canada and delivered in Bombay in October 1937. The receipt says its green. However, over the course of its life it has been repainted several times and perhaps not the right green. What greens were available in that year and how can I be sure of getting the original color right ? Would anyone have color photos of a green 1937 phaeton to send me ? c) I would much appreciate every photo of 1937 Phaetons that I can get.
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| BrianCT | -- 10-26-2010 @ 2:58 PM |
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Ravi, welcome. My brother had a 37 phaeton years ago but not green. Go to the home page on this site and go to store then to books. You need the 37 book to help you. Brian
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| ravi.avalur | -- 10-26-2010 @ 9:30 PM |
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Thank you Brian for your quick response. I did order the Ford 37 book a few weeks ago and a wonderful book it turned out to be. However, it lists two options for Green - Bright Vineyard Green and Dalmatian Green. The invoice dated 1937 for the car only states "green". Bright Vineyard Green according to the book seems to be anything but bright. In fact; it is a dark green more similar to British Racing Green (typically seen on Jaguars and Bentleys. Would I be able to cross reference the serial number with the exact color ? Regards,
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 10-27-2010 @ 4:20 PM |
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I would paint it a ORIGINAL COLOR you like,there is as far as I know, no indicator in the vin number as to what color the car was painted originally, you will have tO live with the color, so you might as well paint it something you like, and if green is it. than go for it. I enclosed a picture of my 37. my 3 cents worth 37RAGTOPMAN an KEEP on FORDIN,,,,,,,
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| Old Henry | -- 10-27-2010 @ 10:06 PM |
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What you want is the "build sheet" that Ford created when they built your car originally. That will tell you which of the two '37 greens your car was. I know that those are available for many years. I don't have the phone number to call right now to check into that. I called it 4 years ago to get one for my '47 but they said that there was a fire in the place that stored them many years ago and the one for my car no longer existed. Maybe someone else knows how to get those now and for what years. If I can get the number I'll post it. Still Old Henry
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| Old Henry | -- 10-27-2010 @ 10:35 PM |
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Is there nothing left anywhere of the original paint? such as inside the trunk, under the door panels, under the dash board? It would seem unlikely that any of the repaints were so thorogh as to cover all of that up. If you can find any original paint and hold your two pain chips up to them you should be able to tell which is closer (even though even the hidden paint will have changed a little from its original color.) That hidden original paint is one of the clues I used to determine the original color of my car when I couldn't get a build sheet. Still Old Henry
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| Stroker | -- 10-28-2010 @ 7:28 AM |
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Years ago, when no one seemed to have heard of 1938 Desert Sand, I carefully pried the stainless center off of my station wagon's spare hubcap (37's also use the two-piece design). Those caps were painted before the stainless was crimped on. Under the stainless was a good example of the color that had never been exposed to daylight. I packed the cap off to Bill Hirsch, and they came up with a beautiful match. So Ravi, if you have an original cap, I'd look under the stainless center cover. Also, it is possible that like my 38 which came from the Long Beach California assembly plant, and had a color that was West Coast specific for "Open" cars, Ford of Canada might have had some special colors that would not show up on most color chips.
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| Old Henry | -- 10-28-2010 @ 2:48 PM |
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Here's the number for the Henry Ford Museum that now stores all of the build sheets that still exist for you to call to find out exactly what color your car was when built (and a lot of other original options) if they still have your sheet: 313-271-1620 I've posted an image of their response with a photo copy of a build sheet for a friend of mine's '48 Lincoln Zephyr. Still Old Henry
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 10-28-2010 @ 3:59 PM |
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Stoker Years ago when at a V8 NATIONAL MEET, I found out that DESERT SAND was a 1937 FORD SPRING COLOR. that was brought out in CALIFORNIA.to aid in FORD sales, I guess it was carried over for 1938 and maybe 1939, but not sure, I was told this by ROY N. from MI. I painted my 1937 this color, it is a APRIL CAR, My 3 cents worth, 37RAGTOPMAN an KEEP on FORDIN,,,!!!!
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| Stroker | -- 10-28-2010 @ 5:09 PM |
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37-My dad ordered my 38 wagon in November 37, assuming it would come through as a 37. The color he ordered was Dalmatian Green, but when the order was filled, of course Dalmatian Green was no longer an option. His (now my) wagon came through painted Desert Sand, which is really pretty close. I've seen your posted pictures of your beautiful 37, and thought it looked a little "light" to be Dalmatian Green. Thanks for clearing that up.
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| ravi.avalur | -- 10-29-2010 @ 11:30 PM |
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What a beautiful car that is ! And what a fantastic color. Any more pictures, including a three quarter shot would be much appreciated.
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| ravi.avalur | -- 10-29-2010 @ 11:38 PM |
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In fact, found a layer under a layer on the central door pillar.... a deep green that looks quite like bright vineyard green as per the color chip print in the 37 Ford book. My only question would be why bright vineyard green is named as such when it is actually quite dark ?
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| Stroker | -- 10-30-2010 @ 7:29 AM |
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Ravi: I had a 38 Ford parts car back in the 50's that was painted Bright Vineyard Green. I wondered at the time why Ford would call a color that was very close to British Racing Green "Bright", and what did this very dark shade have to do with vineyards, as grapevine leaves are not dark. I have wondered a lot about Dalmatian Green, as having never been to Southern Croatia, I can only imagine that the entire area was carpeted in chaparral. I have a Dalmatian dog that is definitely not green. 1937-38 Desert Sand is another example. It has a definite "green cast" that is not often observed in the sands of most deserts I have been to. There are many others, like Harbor Gray (1941) that brings up visions of fog horns. Maybe someone has some insight into color naming conventions, if so, I'd love to hear it.
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| Old Henry | -- 10-30-2010 @ 7:55 AM |
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My paint chip sheet for early Ford colors put out by PPG does not use the word "bright" with Vineyard Green. It just calls that dark green color Vineyard Green. Image attached. Still Old Henry
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| Stroker | -- 10-30-2010 @ 3:10 PM |
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Still: My 38-39 Book by the very through Gary Mallast includes the "Bright" in referencing M-1751; whereas like your's, my PPG "Ditzler" book simply calls it Vineyard Green. I wonder why they never had a color called Lemon Yellow?
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| ford38v8 | -- 10-30-2010 @ 10:31 PM |
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Desert Sand was an Easter Color in 1936. It was discontinued after the promo period in all plants but Long Beach Ca and Richmond Ca, which were instructed to continue the color through the 1938 production year. 37ragtop has a good example of the Desert Sand color. Color chips darken with age and exposure to sunlight. That is why most of the chips you see are almost black. Alan
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