| tierod | -- 10-24-2010 @ 8:49 AM |
|
Looking at a nice 39 Deluxe Tudor. Probably a no. 2/3 restored car. Owner wants 23k which I feel is about 4k too high. Any helpful thoughts appreciated.
|
|
| parrish | -- 10-24-2010 @ 9:14 AM |
|
Depends on the quality of the work, but I have seen nice coupes for that amount...
|
|
| supereal | -- 10-24-2010 @ 10:25 AM |
|
As always, "true" value resides in the eye of the beholder. Many are willing to pay a premium price for a vehicle that relates to their past. That said, the OLD CARS price guide lists a '39 Deluxe tudor at a high (#1) condition at $17,100. #2, $12,000, and #3, $6,850. By contrast, the '39 open cars reach past $41,000. By those measures, by averaging the #2 and #3 categories, I'd say your seller is asking about double the customary level for that car, even if it is "nice". Number 1 cars are as perfect, or better, than new, and quite rare.
|
|
| kubes40 | -- 10-24-2010 @ 12:03 PM |
|
The Old Cars price guide is ridiculously out of date. I will pay their value for any 40 coupe and / or convertible in true #1 shape. Bring em on guys... cash is awaiting. A #1 39 convertible for around $41k? I'll buy as many as those as I am offered at that price as well. Seriously... private message me... A true #2/#3 '39 deluxe tudor could 'possibly' be in the $23k range. It would have to be closer to a true #2 rather than a #3. In the current economy the #2 and lessor cars have taken a hit in values as many more have become available. Supply is up and the number of folks that can afford one is down. That equals lower values. On the other hand, TRUE #1 cars remain few and far between. There are more folks that can afford the true #1 vehicles now than ever. Supply is fairly constant, demand is up. That creates higher realized values.
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 10-24-2010 @ 12:13 PM |
|
I agree with Mike, and would also say that a true #1 is all but nonexistent for any car, making those few transactions unreflective of market conditions for # 2 and 3 cars. Alan
|
|
| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 10-24-2010 @ 12:35 PM |
|
tierod, do you have any pictures you can post.??? if you like the car, I would make a offer,and see what happens, if it is close by this means you do not have to go after a car a few hundred or thouands of miles away TO LOOK AT IT, [ and maybe be disapointed in what you see and hear,besure to drive it and have someone you know follow you looking for smoke etc ] and then make a decision to buy or not,,you also have to condsider this and the cost to do so,trailering across country or state also cost money to do so,,,, the price guides. are just that a guide., and not very accurate, just try finding a car for what they say its worth,they are in a fantasy world, they are just a go by, like the one V8 MEMBER, said I would buy all you have,and a good car is always worth the money, Coupes and Cabriolets. Convertibles,and Phaetons,always bring a premium price my 3 cents worth, 37RAGTOPMAN
|
|
| kubes40 | -- 10-24-2010 @ 3:37 PM |
|
True #1 cars are in fact few and far between. I was taught decades ago and have since learned from personal experience a fairly simple formula to get a car to a #2 condition vs. a #1 condition. A #2 (say 900 points) takes X amount of time and X amount of money to produce. A #1 car takes twice as much (2X) time and twice as much (2X) money. The guys that have restored the true #1 cars ... say an HONEST 998+ points know the formula to be fairly close to reality.
|
|
| supereal | -- 10-25-2010 @ 1:18 PM |
|
A friend of mine recently sold a nice '40 convertible for slightly less than the OLD CARS quotation. I didn't say it was an infallable source, but does show that the "real world" prices derived from auction and other data is usually considerably less than most expect. The market for cars is at a very low point as shown by the recent Barrett/Jackson sales where cars were selling for half or less of the restoration costs. Before I paid top dollar for any car I'd have to see a box full of receipts verifying all work done. There is an antique car section on the NADA web site. They show my #2 '47 convertible in the low 50K range. I'd like to think that is so, because we put over 30G cash in the restoration, not including our own shop time, but I'm not holding my breath, Mike.
|
|
| Henryat1140 | -- 10-25-2010 @ 6:20 PM |
|
Speaking of the collector car market in general . . . The days of buying a collector car with the idea it's a 'good investment' or that you would automatically get back your investment or make a profit are gone. Yes, some cars continue to do well like Ferraris, but the average Joe like us Early Ford guys are seeing lower values overall - IMO about 25% lower than five years ago. Meanwhile restoration costs are still climbing - paint is an example. So my 2 Cents Worth is to buy the car you like for a price you feel comfortable with and enjoy it. I would suggest a 39 Tudor in 2-3 condition should be worth between $15,000 to $18,000. Best wishes whatever way it shakes out. This message was edited by Henryat1140 on 10-25-10 @ 6:21 PM
|
|
| supereal | -- 10-26-2010 @ 10:10 AM |
|
The idea of a collector car as an "investment" was a pitch used by the quick buck boys who were "flipping" cars that had received a quicky cosmetic treatment. We had one in our shop earlier in the year that a customer had paid a small fortune for. He bought it as a rare "SS" model, but we showed him that it was a "clone" worth about half what he paid. Over the years, I've always been happy just getting back the actual cash put into the project. In today's economy, that would be tough. If you are buying a car, use "due diligence", and demand proof of all claims.
|
|
| kubes40 | -- 10-26-2010 @ 11:40 AM |
|
Super, as always you make good AND valid points. From my personal experience the true #1 cars are still bringing huge money especially when compared to their like #2 and #3 cousins. I have not noticed any devaluing whatsoever. I will maintain that is because the true #1 cars remain so very few and far between they can and do hold their value. The value of #2 and #3 cars have in fact taken huge hits in recent years. No doubt as there were a tremendous number of them 'collected' in the past 10+ years at over inflated prices AND on a 2nd mortgage. Factor in the loss of employment and MANY of those folks that bought these over valued cars have found the need to dispose of them to pay for such frivolous things as food and shelter. The guys holding the true #1 cars were not and are not in the same proverbial boat. Thus, they are not selling and the quantity of them (#1 cars) remains quite limited. It all comes down to simple economics - supply and demand. Yes, factoring in one's personal labor and the profit is quite reduced. Still, I continue to do the top point restorations as that is exactly what I truly enjoy. It has been a blessing in that I have been able to support myself doing so. However, rest assured, that's all it is - a blessing. I am one of the lucky few and am thankful for that. Respectfully, Mike
|
|
| supereal | -- 10-26-2010 @ 2:01 PM |
|
Mike: I couldn't agree more. Today, even in hard times, open cars will hold up their value due to comparative rarity, and the fun of cruising with the top down. This does justify the higher prices to a point. Some simply want to have a car that relates to family history, I'm sure, but when the inevitable time comes to sell, that factor usually won't translate to higher price. I am always in awe of genuine #1 cars, but I'd be afraid to drive one as often as I do my lesser quality vehicles, which is just for fun. We built an engine for a gorgeous Camaro last year. The owner has put over a hundred grand in it, so far, and was judged the second best such car in the country. Now, he has his sights set on the #1 spot. The longest trip he makes in it is from the trailer to the field, but that is his pride and joy.
|
|
| kubes40 | -- 10-26-2010 @ 5:12 PM |
|
Hey Super, I'm one of 'those' guys. You know, on and off the trailer. The true enjoyment for me is the strive for so called perfection in my work. Finding that last authentic bolt... I admit freely that I enjoy the restoration process so much more than driving the finished vehicle. Also, the moment a TRUE #1 car is driven, it no longer is a #1. One nick on the underside of a fender or on the frame... kiss that perfection status (and #1 rating) goodbye.
|
|
| supereal | -- 10-27-2010 @ 9:31 AM |
|
Mike: You and I are from different places on the "curve". I admire those of you in the pursuit of perfection, and no one surpasses me in appreciation of a true #1. I've made some changes in my cars over the years for safety and convenience. A bright LED "third" stop light is one, and halogen headlights operated by a relay board is another. They don't alter the appearance much, but do let me drive with some sense of safety. Anyone new to the hobby should plan, at the outset, to decide where they want to go. A good "driver" car will tell them if they aspire to a higher degree of restoration. In either case, the "high fives" we from onlookers is no small reward! I'm sure you agree.
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=2060 |