Topic: Fixed radio, now car won't start sometimes!

FRITZ47	-- 10-17-2010 @ 3:29 PM
	Thanks guys for the help on the radio. I recently bought a 1947 Ford Convertible at the Glenmoor Auction and it runs perfectly, but ran into a new problem today, after following Old Henry's advice on how to get the radio working. I hate to start off as a new member with two problems in two days, but here goes.... After running the engine this morning to get the radio working, offered to take my wife for a short ride. To my surprise, the car refused to start - plenty of fuel going into the carburetor, which looked to be either new or rebuilt and so I assumed it was an ignition problem. Instead of taking a ride this nice 70 degree sunny Ohio afternoon; instead my wife and I went to a movie. Upon our return, car started immediately and we went for a short ride and stopped at a nearby gas station and added some fuel (high-test). Two nice fellows stopped over to admire the car in the gas station and after talking for a few minutes, I attempted to start the car - no luck! I pulled off the air cleaner and there was fuel in the carburetor, but to be sure, one of the two fellows poured in a little gas from a paper cup and is still wouln't start (wouldn't even try to start), although the starter was turning over the engine rapidly. I had my wife try to start the car and checked for spark at the spark plugs - absolutely no spark. One of the two guys drove me home to get my Hagerty card to have the car towed home. We returned about 5-10 minutes later and the car started instantly (within 1/2 second). I drove the car home and parked it in the garage. I waited about 10-15 minutes and just tried it again - no luck - it cranks over rapidly, but won't start or even try to do so. I feel certain that the problem is electrical. When the car runs, it purrs and normally it has started almost instantly, but since I haven't owned it for long, am not sure where to begin on this issue. I am thinking coil or condensor or ?? Any flathead Ford experts have any ideas of what this problem might be? In my younger days, owned many pre-war flatheads and they were junkers, but always started. Thanks, Fred This message was edited by FRITZ47 on 10-17-10 @ 3:31 PM
kubes40	-- 10-17-2010 @ 3:49 PM
	You appear to be on the correct track here - either coil and / or condenser. I would suggest changing one at a time to determine just which one is the culprit. I'd be willing to bet it's the coil. This message was edited by kubes40 on 10-17-10 @ 3:49 PM
Old Henry	-- 10-17-2010 @ 4:06 PM
	The condenser is much cheaper to replace than the coil so I'd start there. Having gone through this many times I replaced many coils just to find out that it was the condenser. I'd start there. Still Old Henry
Old Henry	-- 10-17-2010 @ 4:11 PM
	After buying many defective Argentine condensers from the usual on-line mail-order sources, I finally just went down to NAPA auto and bought an Echlin condenser right off their shelf that was an exact fit and never had any trouble with it since. I've been surprised just how many of the common parts for our old 47's that NAPA has right on their shelves. I also invested in a multi-meter from Radio Shack that would test the condensers for correct Farad's before installing. Saves a lot of trial and error. Still Old Henry
FRITZ47	-- 10-17-2010 @ 4:43 PM
	Thanks for the advice. I buy from NAPA all the time for my 50s Buicks and Safaris, but didn't think about them for the '47 Ford. I forgot to mention this in my earlier post: After adding fuel, started the car and was talking to my two new friends through the open window with car idling nicely for about 4-5 minutes, when it suddenly quit (as if I shut off the key). Then failed to start as previously described. Here is one more closeup picture of the engine. Is this the coil? (My '39 LaSalle has a tubular coil the size of a toilet paper inside cardboard and it is mounted on the firewall). Thanks for the quick advice - what a wonderful club I just joined! Fred
Old Henry	-- 10-17-2010 @ 8:37 PM
	Your picture is of the coil. Still Old Henry This message was edited by Old Henry on 10-18-10 @ 5:13 AM
37RAGTOPMAN	-- 10-18-2010 @ 5:37 AM
	You could adapt a modern 6 volt coil.they are sold by AUTOZONE, around $20.00 and will get you back on the road, have the original one rebuilt. Also you will have to disconnect the resister, it is no longer need with a modern 6 volt coil I carry 1 coil as a spare. hope this helps 37RAGTOPMN
51f1	-- 10-18-2010 @ 6:53 AM
	Don't waste your money on high-test fuel. The regular today far exceeds anything available when your car was built. Richard
supereal	-- 10-18-2010 @ 7:11 AM
	With the ignition switch on, check the voltage to the coil input. You should see the reading move between battery voltage, just over 6 volts, and about 3 volts as the engine is cranked and the points open and close. I suspect, since the engine stopped suddenly, that the ignition switch is failing, not an unusual event in an old car. When a coil or condenser fails, it usually causes the engine to sputter, then fail, rather than just stop. As your car was cold when you tried to start it, I doubt the coil is bad.
FRITZ47	-- 10-18-2010 @ 7:06 PM
	I first thought that I should consider the ignition switch, as it looks quite old, yet when turned on, the radio works and the gauges seem to work (didn't think to check when car did not start). Mechanically it works the safety lever back and forth when the key is turned on, but I did not check the voltage at the coil as yet. A problem with an intermittent short is not always an easy fix. Today I stopped at NAPA and ordered a new condenser, new distributor cap, new points and distributor rotor, so that I will have most of what I need as I get into this. As I said, car was idling very nicely and just stopped suddently (no sputtering of any kind)- just shut off. Car was slightly warmed up, but only after a drive of about 2 miles to the gas station at 70 degrees - engine was certainly not hot. I am wondering where I can find a new ignition switch (original type) for this car? In a pinch, imagine that I could use the existing switch to lock the steering wheel and install a concealed ignition switch below the dash if necessary to see if the problem can be fixed, but the car is so nice, that it would be better to have a NOS swich or equivalent. At Hershey I picked up a Mac's Catalog and see that they sell an Ignition Switch Body for 1941-1948, but not the Ignition Switch Contact Set for a 1947 Ford. I did not check Carpenter as yet. Looking for suggestions and thanks again for all of the help. Fred Here is a picture of the car at our repro "Gas Station" at our car museum at work. Fred
kubes40	-- 10-19-2010 @ 5:34 AM
	Nearly always the symptoms you describe can be traced back to a faulty coil and / or condenser. Before disturbing the distributor, my advice is to concentrate on those two items. It is always a good idea to repair or replace ONE thing at a time. The ignition switch can be inspected easily. Look for grooves cut into the terminal plate. Usually the pivoting contact plate is okay. After the car has been running for a while, you can place your finger on the three terminals of the rear of the switch. If they are warm to the touch, something within the switch is worn.
supereal	-- 10-19-2010 @ 10:16 AM
	Fritz: The common problem with the ignition switch is the wearing of a groove in the Bakelite that eventually keeps the wiper arm from making proper contact. You can order the switch body and arm (brush) from good vendors such as C&G (800/266-0470). The part number for the switch is 09A-3704. Just unscrew the metal cage from then back and the body and arm will come off. The terminals feed the "accessories" such as your radio, and the ignition side feeds the resistor for the coil. That is likely why the radio worked, but the ignition did not. About half of old switches fail to make good contact, and we routinely replace them before they cause trouble.

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