| bricehb | -- 10-15-2010 @ 1:59 PM |
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Something is making a metal to metal noise in my clutch and it looks like we might have to move the engine to get to the clutch. What is involved in removing the clutch? It is a 46 Super Deluxe 4-door.
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| alanwoodieman | -- 10-15-2010 @ 4:32 PM |
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you have two choices, remove the engine to get to the clutch, or remove the rear axle and transmission to get to the clutch. I have done both and anyway you go it is a job.
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| 40guy | -- 10-15-2010 @ 4:41 PM |
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I too have done it both ways and much prefer pulling the engine out. Once you get the engine out the job is pretty straightforward them. I would replace cluch,pressure plate,release bearing, and pilot bearing/bushing plus anything else I could while you're at it. This isn't something you want to do every day.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 10-16-2010 @ 6:26 AM |
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it all depends if you have a cherry picker to remove the engine,or a hoist on a beam. you will might have to remove the hood, if you do not,I would pull the rear back , just enough to clear the trans coming out though the door opening, make a dolley [ a ATV or MOTORCYCLE JACK, would help also ] so you can slide the rear back,remove the wheels and tires, and put the car on jack stands, remove the floor boards, besure to put something under the engine so it will rest there, HAVE HELP LIFTING the trans back and out,besure to drain the trans first, if you have the small clutch you should be able to remove though the opening with the trans removed., and cover the seats and door panels. either way is a bear to do, hope this helps, 37RAGTOPMAN an KEEP on FORDIN,,!!!
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| supereal | -- 10-16-2010 @ 9:16 AM |
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We prefer to pull the rear axle back far enough to get the u-joint clear then, with the seat all the way back, or out, and the floorboards removed, the gearbox comes back, up, and out. That doesn't require a hoist, as does the engine removal. Regarding the noise, does it appear only when the clutch pedal is depressed? Can you hear it when the transmission is in neutral with the engine running, or when in gear with the clutch down? In the first case, it is likely the release (throwout) bearing is bad. In the second, the front transmission bearing is failing. The last is heard when the pilot bearing in the flywheel is bad. In the oil level in the transmission correct? As in all cases of trouble, making the right diagnosis before dis-assembly is the key to a successful job.
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| bricehb | -- 10-17-2010 @ 8:18 AM |
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There is no noise when at idle. As I give it gas the noise begins and gets louder the more the engine revs. It is not a consistant noise, but a somewhat high pitched noise like something is loose and being kicked around. Makes no difference if the clutch is pushed in or not or if driving in gear. We put the car on a lift and listened and it seemed to come from the clutch area, whcih is what I was guessing. It was not gradual, one minute the car ran fine, the next minute it was shreeking. I had no idea it would be so much trouble to get access to the clutch. Thanks for all the comments. They have been helpful and have given me some direction.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 10-17-2010 @ 8:24 AM |
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you can remove the starter and look in and see if you see anything that is or has left marks, I had a MODEL A.and a bolt had come loose and was rattling around the bell housing, I remove by turning the engine over by hand and packing the side of flywheel with wheel bearing grease and it picked up the bolt, and then remove the grease, also there is a inspection cover on the top of bell housing were you can look in, you will have to remove the floor boards, like SUPERREAL SAID, make sure you find the problem before tearing it apart, hope this helps,37RAGTOPMAN an KEEP on FORDIN,,,!!! This message was edited by 37RAGTOPMAN on 10-17-10 @ 8:25 AM
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| Johns46coupe | -- 10-17-2010 @ 5:00 PM |
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Having approached the clutch both ways, I would pull the engine. When you replace the clutch pressure plate, disk and associated bearings, it's a good idea to have the pressure plate and flywheel balanced together. You have to remove the oilpan to remove the flywheel. Doing so with the engine out was easier. I rented a high quality engine hoist for a week for $75. I had lined up a machine shop to do the balancing and gotten all the needed parts before I pulled the engine so it was a pretty quick job. But as others have said, locating the problem before pulling anything apart is the best approach. John This message was edited by Johns46coupe on 10-17-10 @ 5:01 PM
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| supereal | -- 10-18-2010 @ 7:18 AM |
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Check the starter drive. It may be sticking in or near the flywheel ring gear and not allowing the starter drive to fully retract. Be sure the spiral on the starter shaft is clean and free of oil and dirt, and the spring isn't broken. Look at the teeth on the ring gear though the starter mounting hole to see if the ring gear is damaged. Usually this will show up at the same place on opposite sides of the flywheel.
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| bricehb | -- 10-19-2010 @ 12:09 PM |
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My mechanic is sure the noise is coming from around the clutch area. He is semi-retired and has a one-man shop now and suggested since we might have to pull the engine to wait a month since he has a restoration to finish up on another car. So today I had the 46 towed back to my house. Started it up to drive into the garage and the noise is totally gone! Drove around the neighborhood, engine very smooth, shifted very smooth, just like normal. The something that was loose might have been loose for years maybe and just got disloged somehow and now is back tucked away from spinning disks? I think I should wait and see if it happens again before doing anything. What do you all think?
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| Stroker | -- 10-19-2010 @ 1:34 PM |
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I'm a great believer of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". However, in this case I believe I'd at least pull the oil pan and look for some "stuff" in the clutch (dry) side of the pan. Not hard to do, and a good opportunity to clean the oil pump screen while you have it off. No need to pull the engine. Be interesting to see what bit's and pieces you recover, and for the price of an oil pan gasket you get piece of mind, or an idea of what might be shedding stuff.
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| TomO | -- 10-20-2010 @ 5:03 PM |
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I agree with Supereal that the sound may be coming from your starter. Check to see that the mounting bolts are tight and that the bracket from the starter bolt to the oil pan is installed. Tom
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| oldford2 | -- 10-20-2010 @ 5:55 PM |
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"pull the pan, not hard to do" Stroker, can you describe the steps to pull the pan on a 46. Thanks John
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| Stroker | -- 10-21-2010 @ 7:29 AM |
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OldFord2: Not having a 46, but rather a 38' I'll do my best. 1. Drain the oil, disconnect the battery and remove the dip stick. 2. If the engine is equipped with an oil filter, remove the bottom return line that connects the filter housing to the oil pan. 3. Support the front end with jack stands under the frame rails in order to unload the front suspension for greater clearance between the bottom of the pan and the tie rod, drag link and axle. 4. Remove the exhaust cross-over pipe at the left manifold, and clamp leading to the right manifold. 5. Remove the starter. (Great time to follow Super's advice on the starter). 6. Remove the lower transmission-to pan bolts. 7. Remove the oil pan to block cap screws. A little persuasion with a large screw driver or gasket scr*per will probably be needed to break the pan gasket seal to the block, Proceed gently , and work your way around the block skirt so as to avoid bending the pan rail. There is no gasket between the transmission bell and the oil pan, so I'd start at the rear. Should be able to tip the rear down, and remove, as there will be no interference with the wishbone. Once you get if off, any stuff that might be shedding from the clutch assembly will be contained in the rear (dry) part of the pan, and you will be able to get a great view of the condition of the clutch, in order make a decision as to whether to replace. I hope I haven't missed anything, perhaps some of the 41-48 guru's will chime in.
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| TomO | -- 10-21-2010 @ 8:30 AM |
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Removing the pan is not difficult, but the installation while the engine is in the car can be challenging. The cork seal by the clutch area, can be difficult to keep in place while installing the pan. You will most likely have to drop the front axle radius bars at the ball socket, to get enough clearance to remove the pan and jack up the engine about 2-4" in order to get at the front pan bolts and give clearance to the front cross-member. You will also have to turn the engine in order to clear the counterweights. Because the noise has disappeared, I would just remove the starter, clean and inspect the bendix drive, use a small magnet to check the bottom of the clutch housing fro debris and if no extra hardware is found re-install the starter. If you find extra hardware, then pull the pan. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 10-21-10 @ 8:36 AM
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