| 46fordnut | -- 09-12-2010 @ 5:45 AM |
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h*llo again, i just change my oil in my flat 8 . before i did this my pressure would go to 80 when cold and drop down to about 10 when warm. now after the change it goes to 30 when cold the down to about 10 when warm . normal? i used 30 weight oil and a new filter. runs just fine.
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| 40guy | -- 09-12-2010 @ 6:24 AM |
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I'm not sure what the "normal" range is due to the individuality of these cars. That variies from car to car due to guage and sender accuracy. A sudden drop like that may or may not be cause for concern. I too have used straight 30 WT. in my Flathead for 25 years and everytime I change oil the pressure is always the same; 70-80 cold 10-20 warm at idle. I hope something hasn't got over the pump screen. I'm sure others will add to this.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 09-12-2010 @ 7:29 AM |
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is it possible the old oil filter was restricting the flow of oil causing higher pressure,??? how long was it in the engine,? are you using the same brand of oil? I would for testing purposes install a tempory oil pressure gauge and see what the reading are, is you gauge a original and a electric ? also what year car or truck and what engine,???? 50# system or 80# system low oil pressure could be normal, I installed a 80# pump in my 37 and have great oil pressure, and I am using the 50# sender, get back to us.,would like to know how you made out. 37RAGTOPMAN and KEEP on FORDIN,
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| 46fordnut | -- 09-12-2010 @ 7:59 AM |
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2 years on the oil and filter 800 miles. oem electric gauge. 1946 ford super deluxe 24 stud 239 flathead v8 . as far as i know the same engine the car came with. numbers match. yes same brand of oil always. i did find some small old oil chunks in the filter when i changed it this past time. oh ya before i got the car in 05 it did not run or do anything for 18 years! this was not the first oil change i did on it. from what i know the engine has 100,000 miles and never been opened.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 09-12-2010 @ 8:34 AM |
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well you should have have the 80# pump, try a external oil pressure gauge, mechanial type, and see what you get, It might that a piece of the things you found in the oil filter. is in the pressure relief valve ? causing it not to close and build up pressure.? this was there to regulate the oil pressure let hear back from you, 37RAGTOPMAN and KEEP on FORDIN,,,!!!!!!
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| supereal | -- 09-12-2010 @ 10:02 AM |
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That's a long time between oil changes, and finding "chunks" is not a good sign. I'd install a high detergent oil, such as Rotella 10-40, and drain the oil and change the filter after a couple of hundred miles at least a two times. It is a good bet that sitting for 18 years solidified old oil into sludge, producing the chunks. The drop in oil pressure is probably due from the gradual removal of this crud from the oil passages in the engine, particularly the crankshaft. If you are lucky, the engine may survive, as these old flatheads are tough and, often, forgiving. Most will show almost full gauge oil pressure when started cold, and drop to, or near, zero on the gauge when hot and idling. If you hear a rapping sound, shut down immediately, as it is likely a bearing has let loose due to oil starvation.
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| 46fordnut | -- 09-12-2010 @ 4:29 PM |
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the chunks are more like "felt" not large or anything like that. i would say like a soot like is another way to put it. my oil changes are done at least twice a year. only did the 2 year span once. and why use the oil you said ? can you tell me is rotella 10/40 is that the only oil i should use to do this ? what about after i did this what oil should i use? how long do i run the engine with this oil before the change? is there anything bad that can happen by doing this? as far as the gauge mine did go close to zero when warm you are correct there. p.s. i did drain the 18 year old oil out before it ran and put new oil and filter. i always prime my filter when i change the oil.
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| kubes40 | -- 09-12-2010 @ 6:08 PM |
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Hey Super, You know I always respect your advice. You've taught this old dog a few things for certain! I have question for you... I have been taught that when one changes to an 80# oil PUMP he should also go to an 80# sending unit as well as an 80# gauge. If not, how can one expect to get an accurate reading? I know Ford went to an 80# pump sometime directly after WWII. At that time they also went to 80# sending units and 80# dash gauges. This was the time they (Ford) started to stamp 80 or 50 on the sending units to differentiate them from one another. The question remains... an 80# pump with 50# gauges???
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| 46fordnut | -- 09-12-2010 @ 8:41 PM |
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im not sure but someone here used a #80 pump with a #50 sender . they said they have great psi this was on a 1937
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| ford38v8 | -- 09-12-2010 @ 8:50 PM |
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Mike, I think I can answer this question, as they tend to bed down early in Ioway. The pump used in a flathead will still be subject to a pressure relief valve, whether on the pump or in the front of the block. Also, regardless of the pressure or volume produced, only the pairing of sender and gage would be the important issue to attain an accurate reading. Many guys do not know of the point you made regarding the value mark on the sender. I'd suggest that they reread your post to fully understand that senders having no mark at all are all 50 lb senders. We'll see in the morning if I got it right, as I also depend on Bob's expertise. Alan
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 09-13-2010 @ 6:10 AM |
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46fordnut On my 37 ,the way I see it, the sender and gauge are matched,so it will read the correct pressure.that the pump is putting out, yes the press regulater. is were the pressure is regulated, but I have more volume, atleast the option of more oil,if the regulater calls for it, better then starving for oil, with a worn 50 lb pump, if it only puts out 50lb and then gets worn , how much pressure or oil volume would be expected ? my oil pressure increased with the 80lb pump, the way I look at it. FORD did this up grade for a reason, and everybody rebuilding a V8 FLATHEAD should go for it, my 3 cents worth 37RAGTOPMAN and KEEP on FORDIN,,,, This message was edited by 37RAGTOPMAN on 9-13-10 @ 6:23 AM
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| supereal | -- 09-13-2010 @ 11:04 AM |
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You guys make it easy on me. As said, the 80# sender will work with the 50# pump if the relief valve is OK. The 50# sender is no longer produced, unless you can find a NOS unit, or have yours repaired. As with most Ford gauges, the reading is only relative, not precise. If you are very concerned about the actual pressure, install an aftermarket direct reading gauge. Same is true with the other gauges, such as temperature and charging current. If you are the obsessive type, the old car hobby will drive you nuts, anyway. Just drive and enjoy the ride.
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| kubes40 | -- 09-14-2010 @ 6:52 AM |
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Hey Alan, I should have said something about the early 50# senders not being marked whatsoever. As you and I know, Ford started marking all of them when the 80# senders were produced. When I install hi-volume pumps in my rebuilds, I always block of the internal (block) pressure relief valve. The pump will only reach the pressure the relief valve allows. Thus, if the hi-volume pump has a 50# relief valve and the internal block relief is still allowed to open at 20#, well, 20# is what you get - maximum. Also, the dash gauge will look like it's buried if the sending unit doesn't match the pump and / or the dash gauge. While I realize the dash gauges are only an 'estimate' of reality, with a mix-match of units, what it shows is not even close.
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| TomO | -- 09-14-2010 @ 8:31 AM |
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Mike, the sending unit has to be the same as the pump and pressure relief valve. If you have an 80# pump and the pressure relief valve is also 80# you need a 80# sending unit. The gauge workings are the same for a 50# gauge or a 80# gauge. If you use a 80# sending unit with a 1940 (50#) gauge the actual oil pressure will be approximately twice the reading. You can test this by hooking up a sending unit and gauge to your air compressor and regulating the pressure with the air pressure regulator. Start out at 10# and then go up to a max of 80#. If you use a 50# sender with an 80# pump and pressure relief valve, you will be reading at the top of the scale when you have more than 50# of pressure. I suspect that this would eventually harm both the sending unit and the gauge. Most of the sending units and gauges that I have checked, came within 5# of the air pressure reading. The ones that were off were units that had been repaired and not re-calibrated. Tom
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| supereal | -- 09-14-2010 @ 8:33 AM |
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As the later style pump has a relief valve built in, the one in the valve chamber can be eliminated. The gauge can be brought into range by inserting a series resistor in the gauge circuit, but the reading will not be linear. Senders that will work with the original pump can be seen on page 90 of the C&G catalog.
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| kubes40 | -- 09-14-2010 @ 6:09 PM |
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Tom, What you describe is what I was taught and have been doing for years. Only makes sense.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 09-15-2010 @ 4:59 AM |
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TOMO this is what you said, If you use a 50# sender with an 80# pump and pressure relief valve, you will be reading at the top of the scale when you have more than 50# of pressure. I suspect that this would eventually harm both the sending unit and the gauge this is what you explained, and I Was wondering this is what I have done, but left the oil pressure relief valve in the block, you would think this valve would regulate the pressure the second time, I can tell you for a fact, the gauge does not peg to the top and have been driving my 37 for about 8-10 years set up this way with no problems, and reads normal pressure, reads about 30 lbs on the highway 37RAGTOPMAN and KEEP on FORDIN,,,
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| kubes40 | -- 09-15-2010 @ 5:53 AM |
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If you didn't dampen the relief valve in the block, the pressure will only reach as high as THAT valve will allow. That is, much lower than your pump is designed to deliver. The valve built into your pump will never come into operation. Thus, you will not utilize the extra pressure that pump is capable of. I've seen many guys overlook the fact they need to dampen the internal block valve when installing a high volume pump. As far as the dash gauge reading correctly in this particular situation, I'd see no reason why it wouldn't. Simply put - both the sending unit and the dash gauge have no clue your engine has a high volume pump.
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