| Tim I | -- 09-09-2010 @ 2:05 PM |
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I need to replace the cracked, rotten tires on my '38 coupe and am thinking about ordering some tires from Coker. Is there anyone who can recommend someplace to mount and balance the tires and tubes in the Denver area? Thanks. Tim
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| supereal | -- 09-09-2010 @ 2:46 PM |
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Mounting and balancing the tires of your car with the wide bolt circle will require a shop with an adapter for that purpose, probably one that has been in business for a very long time. If you are a Club member, look in the roster to get phone numbers of those near you who may be able to steer you to a place that can do the job.
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| ford38v8 | -- 09-09-2010 @ 5:19 PM |
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Tim, The '36-'39 wide bolt pattern wheels require an adapter similar to a VW adapter. This would be a simple donut disc with lugs to fit your wheels, and center hole like a modern wheel, so it can be spin balanced. If you are a machinist, it is an easy task, or you may contract it out to a local machinist, or, there is an advertiser in the V8 Times that sells them for $80 including shipping. For the hassle, I'd say that's a decent price. Have the disc balanced first, and balance holes drilled if needed. Mount each bare wheel using all 5 lug nuts, locate and mark the heavy point on the wheel, then go for the tire mount, using plenty of talc on the tubes to prevent abrasion. The heavy point on the tire can then be put opposite the heavy point of the wheel for a good start on the balance. Remember, balance weights are larger now due to lead being outlawed for the purpose. Mount the weights on the inside of the wheel, not the outside. Coker tire makes most of the tires used in the hobby. Their 6.00x16 Firestone is correct for your car and gives good service. I've never had any problems but some have had to exchange a tire on occasion due to excessive off balance. If this happens to you, they do stand behind their product. You may keep in mind that most tire shops labor force matches the low pay they receive, and the above instructions will go unheeded without personal supervision. Good luck on that. Alan
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| trjford8 | -- 09-09-2010 @ 8:24 PM |
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Tim, in the Denver area you might contact Bert's Model A Store. One of the guys who works there is a V-8er and may be able to refer you to a shop.
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| silverchief | -- 09-11-2010 @ 9:37 AM |
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Tim, If you order tires from Coker, be absolutely sure they are correct for your car and what you ordered before mounting them.
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| CharlieStephens | -- 09-11-2010 @ 10:21 AM |
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Try contacting the local chapter of the Early Ford V8 club and asking who their members are using. Question for supereal. I mount my tires using tire irons. Is there a special adapter I should be using (don't bother to answer, I am not serious)? Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 9-11-10 @ 10:25 AM
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| supereal | -- 09-11-2010 @ 11:18 AM |
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Charlie: I remember doing that before my knees got too creaky to get close to the job! I suspect it still works, even if I don't. On the serious side, we have had some problems with some Coker items, such as being too out of round to balance, even when repositioned on the rim several times, and with tubes that leak right out of the box. They did replace these, of course, but it slowed down the project and produced some shipping costs. I didn't appreciate their telling me it was our fault, as we didn't know how to mount the tires. The advice above about careful inspection before mounting is a good one. Spin balancing is a "must", thus the need for the adapter, as you know. The shop we use made one from an old hub and drum for the wide circle rims. They have been in the business for 75 years.
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| sturgis 39 | -- 09-11-2010 @ 9:54 PM |
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THE RED DOT GOES BY THE VALVE STEM. MOST PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE RED DOT IS FOR. MY TIRES WERE BALANCED ON THE CAR BY A LOCAL GARAGE. THIS REQUIRED NO ADDITIONAL ADAPTERS.
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| supereal | -- 09-12-2010 @ 10:11 AM |
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You are lucky to find a shop that still does on-car balancing. Some of the truck shops are able to do that. The red dot is useful if the tire is round. The problem we had was because two of the tires were not circular, probably due to poor construction where the plies were spliced. The usual "fix" is to match the high spot with a low place on the rim, if they are about the same. Some shops will opt to shave off the high spot, but that defeats the advantage of new tires.
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| Stroker | -- 09-12-2010 @ 1:06 PM |
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Alan, et al: I use an ancient balancer that came from our local alignment shop when the owner retired. It came with a number of plates, one of which was a 36-39 "wide-five" pattern. The owner agreed to teach me the fine art of using the old machine as long as I would let him use it to balance his own tires for the rest of his life (Frank lived to the ripe old age of 88) One thing in the course of his long term mentoring was that you need to get the static balance right, and then work on the dynamic balance. As a crude example of the difference, consider a tricycle crank and wheel assembly. It is normally in static balance, as the pedals are of the same weight. Spin that wheel, and the dynamic unbalance will cause the fork to oscillate. The same applies to installing wheel weights. In order to compensate for this effect, it is often necessary to install weights 180 degrees from each other with one on the inside, and one on the outside, regardless of where the "heavy spot" is. Sooo...not meaning to sound overly "Mitch*llish",I would question being able to get a good balance job by only placing the weights on the inside, however cosmetically desireable that might be. I might add that most low speed modern balancers-(today,OSHA would never allow mine in a workplace), really only do a "radial" balance, as they have no provision for mapping the "wobble" produced by two unbalanced forces on opposite sides of the casing.
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| ford38v8 | -- 09-12-2010 @ 8:25 PM |
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Dan, I agree, the dynamic balancers of some years back were superior machines. They were scary, the speed of those things must have been double what any of our wheels would ever get to. I'm sure we do wear out our kingpins faster without an inside/outside rim balance, but it is all about aesthetics with us, isn't it? Given that we do only weight the inside of the rims, I suppose a bubble balancer could produce a balance good enough for our purposes. I have a darn good one myself, I hadn't thought of using it because it's such a dinosaur. Alan
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| Stroker | -- 09-13-2010 @ 6:11 AM |
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Alan/Tim I: After reading my diatribe on the advantages of "true dynamic balance", I did a little homework and found that there are, in fact modern balancers that are capable of doing this. The most notable one is a John Bean, marketed by Snap-On. My old balancer is a 1930's John Bean, and yes it spins the tire at about 90 mph, so I have to make sure there are no pebbles in the tread, as they become missiles. It is truly a dinosaur, but it does an excellent job. For a while, I did quite a few tires for our local dirt track racers, as the local outlaw sprinters commonly use wide-five wheels. Which I would think might be a solution for Tim I in Denver. Surely there are local "dirtballers" in that area that need their tires balanced. Tim I might consider seeking out a tire shop that caters to the dirt track racers.
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| Sporty40 | -- 09-13-2010 @ 9:52 AM |
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Super, I was considering buying Coker radials for my '40 Coupe but have concerns about the construction of that particular "brand" after reading your post. Have you had better luck with a different supplier, or is Coker the unofficial standard? Thanks in advance for your response? Sporty
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| supereal | -- 09-13-2010 @ 10:57 AM |
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Sporty: After the replacement of the out-of-round tires from Coker, we did get a new set trued and balanced. I suggested to them, not too kindly, that their customer service needed some improvement. The problem with finding an alternative source is that there just are not many that handles old sizes. Around here, if you want a 600x16, only agricultural tires are available. Coker also owns Universal Tire, as an example. I wouldn't be afraid to buy tires from them, as the bias plys on my '47 now are fine. They don't "flat spot", either. Just check them thoroughly before you run them.
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| Sporty40 | -- 09-14-2010 @ 7:06 AM |
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Super, Thanks for your comments about Coker which helped settle a few things in my mind. I noticed you run bias on your car and appear satisfied. Maybe I need to find a good frontend specialist before I opt for radials. I have some play in my steering especially when on concrete roadways or asphalt over concrete that has cracked. A couple of people have suggested that radials would make a big difference. As you have quoted before, it's better to fix one problem before adding another factor to the mix. However, I'm not certain the newer shops in Iowa can deal with these old cars. Sporty
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| TomO | -- 09-14-2010 @ 7:58 AM |
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Sporty, Radial tires may magnify any front end problems that you have. I would make sure that the front end has no worn parts and is in alignment before installing radial tires. Bump steer (change of direction due to a bump) is more pronounced when the king pins or tie rod ends are worn or toe in is incorrect. If you still have a problem with it after correcting the front end problems, radial tire will help keep the car in a straight line. Make sure that you use inner tubes and keep the tires properly inflated. The 40 wheels do not have the hump in them to keep a tire seated on the rim when the pressure is low. Tom
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| supereal | -- 09-14-2010 @ 8:27 AM |
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I use bias ply tires for some of the reasons Tom lays out, but it seems that putting tubes in radials, often necessary, defeats much of the purpose of radials such as more flexible sidewalls, etc. I know that this is necessary because the rims often are eroded to a point where tubeless tires won't seal effectively. I'd be more concerned that the design of the rim bead isn't intended to handle the flexing of the radial sidewalls. Many use them, with good results, I know. As Tom points out, it is essential that the front end be in top shape. Given the fact that only the toe-in of the solid axle is adjustable, king pins, tie rod ends, spring shackles, and wishbone anchor, not to mention steering gear lash, will create a handling problem if there is any play in the system as it magnifies the tendency for radials to wander.
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| Sporty40 | -- 09-15-2010 @ 3:32 PM |
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Tom & Super, Thanks to both of you for your comments on the importance of proper frontend maintenance and it's effect on both bias & radial tires. My course of action is now obvious. Sporty
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