| fredster | -- 08-25-2010 @ 8:01 PM |
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I bought all new wheel cylinders '39-'48at sacramento vintage ford 4 yrs ago. installed them in jan.this year and the left front leaks.i removed and inspected them had a friend check it out and he said the new wheel cylinder looked fine.I reinstalled and same thing, it leaks. i pulled the cylinder out again but it sat on my shop table for a few months and the inside of the cylinder got surface rust and some rust pits in them.I went to sac vintage and the parts tech guy said the rust pits caused the leak.So I bought a new one and installed it and it leaked.!Same left front.Wrong brake shoes? that pushing the piston pass the seal? HELP!!!!!!!!!! b29fred
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| sturgis 39 | -- 08-26-2010 @ 4:29 AM |
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MAYBE THE CONNECTION IS THE CAUSE OF THE LEAK.SOMEONE TOLD ME NOT TO USE SILICONE BRAKE FLUID IN OLD CARS. THIS DOES NOT EXPLAIN JUST ONE CYLINDER LEAKING.I HAVE NEVER BOUGHT NEW CYLINDERS. THEY SELL KITS AND THEY ARE EASY TO INSTALL. BUY A HONE AND HOOK UP THE ELECTRIC DRILL AND HAVE FUN. THE SEALS AND PISTON RUBBERS DO NOT LIKE OIL.I HOPE SOMEONE WILL HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION.I HAVE HAD BAD BLEEDER VALVES AND I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU GET NEW ONES WITH NEW CYLINDERS.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-26-2010 @ 5:26 AM |
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The piston bore might be overbored causing this leak,I had the same thing from MACS a number of years ago, SENT THEM BACK, I bought NEW ones from a AUTO PARTS HOUSE, NOT CHEAP. but NO LEAKS.... WHITE POST RESTORATIONS also rebuild all kinds of cylinders,from any make of auto,by reboring the cylinders and installing brass sleeves in them, NO MORE RUST,EVER. the rubber parts in the cylinders are very common and just about any auto part store will have kits with the same sizes ,and you can try to install new seals in them. not a hard job, and a learning experience., BUY A HONE,,,make sure there are no pits near the end were the seal rides, in the center of the cylinder were the seal does not ride, should be ok,if it has a few pits,cause it does not wear the seal out, ALSO.....NAPA AUTO PARTS SELLS a lube that you install behind the rubber boots.this makes a seal to keep water out,well worth the few bucks, Hope this helps,. 37RAGTOPMAN,an KEEP ON TRUCKIN,,,!!
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| TomO | -- 08-26-2010 @ 7:32 AM |
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I prefer to buy all of my brake parts from a local auto parts store. They handle Wagner, Raybestos and Dorman products. I have not had any problem with these parts and the price is competitive with quality parts form C&G and other vendors. The Raybestos part numbers for wheel cylinders are: Left Front WC8264, RF WC8265, LR WC8266 and RR WC8267. The Master Cylinder P/N is MC1050. Use a good quality dial or digital calipers to measure both bores of the cylinders. They should be 1" and 1 1/8 inch + .003" -.0". Tom
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| deuce_roadster | -- 08-26-2010 @ 9:40 AM |
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I had this exact same problem with 2 different cars both with NAPA parts. Both times it was the thickness of the new lining pushing the piston too far in the cyl and the lip of the rubber was going just past the entrance hole for the brake lining. There really was no problem with the cylinder. I think this is more an issue with the front cylinders because I think the line is coming in at an angle. Anyway it was VERY frustrating, I ended up taking about 1/16 inch off the ends of the shoes where they contact the piston and the problem went away.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 08-26-2010 @ 9:42 AM |
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Oops, make that the entrance hole for the brake FLUID in the previous post. (It is h*ll getting old)
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| supereal | -- 08-26-2010 @ 10:01 AM |
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Are the wheel cylinders correctly positioned with the large end facing the front of the car, and the secondary (short) shoe end of the cylinder facing toward the reverse shoe? Does your master cylinder have at least one inch of free play at the pedal so the system pressure is fully relieved when the pedal is released? Is the brake hose to that wheel in good condition with no kinks? It is unusual for a new brake cylinder to become pitted in a short time, especially out on the bench. Pitting is caused by water in the fluid. Brake fluid is "hydroscopic". That means it has an affinity for water, which collects in the cylinders as beads on the bottom surface of the bore. Only fresh, never before opened, containers of brake fluid should be used. We flush and replace all conventional brake fluid in our cars every couple of years, and avoid silicone (DOT5) fluid because it tends to leak even in otherwise good systems.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-26-2010 @ 5:23 PM |
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only time I saw that silicone brake fluid work is in a closed brake system like a motorcycle, used it twice,and had problems both times 1962 MERCEDES BENZ 190-D EVERTHING NEW,!!!! 1948 CHEVROLET STATION WAGON,did a complete brake system , everything new, everything new, and about 1 year later had problems, went back to the original brake fluid. I have good results with VALOLINE SYNTHEIC BRAKE FLUID. 37RAGTOPMAN an KEEP ON TRUCKIN,,,,
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-26-2010 @ 5:30 PM |
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deuce roadster. on the brake relined brake shoes,? were the shoes repros? with new lining? or original shoes,with new lining? it always to play safe. and AWAYS COMPARE REPROS to the ORIGINALS, I suspect that the shoes were repros and were just a little longer then the originals. just my 3 cents worth, but really would like to know. 37RAGTOPMAN
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| deuce_roadster | -- 08-26-2010 @ 9:10 PM |
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37Ragtopman, Shoes were Ford script but yes, they had been relined locally in the Seattle area (bonded) and arced to drums. Drums were less then .050 wear. Don't know how you would check to see if the lining is too thick, maybe I should have used worse drums (not really!) But this was definitely the problem here as everything else was new. Pistons being pushed too far back.
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| TomO | -- 08-27-2010 @ 7:30 AM |
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Silicone fluid works very well in a good brake system. The most common problem people have with Dot 5 is getting a firm pedal. Dot 5 does not affect the rubber or leak from good connections. It does not attract water or cause the brake cylinders to fail. I have had Dot 5 in my car since 1980 and when I replaced the shoes this Spring, I honed the cylinders and put new rubber parts in the wheel cylinders. The honing was done to break the glaze and put a seating surface in the wheel cylinders as there was no pitting in any of them. IMHO Dot 5 works better in a seldom used car then Dot 3 because of the accumulation of water in an open system with Dot 3. The moisture tends to boil out of the system when you use the car as a daily driver, but accumulates when parked. Tom
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-28-2010 @ 6:03 AM |
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I think the cast iron master cylinder also causes water to enter the system by sweating, also there is a vent on the master cylinder , this is were air enters, also entering is water that is in the air. usually the dot 5 systems in motorcycles AND IN MODERN CARS have a rubber bladder that does not let outside air in, and also no water, the bladder compensates for the wear in the brake pads,letting the fluid go up and down I used DOT 5 2 times and never again, I think you are one lucky person,getting good results, but then again in might have someting to do with where you live, just my 3 cents worth 37RAGTOPMAN
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| TomO | -- 08-28-2010 @ 7:23 AM |
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Dot 5 is not used by the factory in any modern cars that I know of. It cannot be used in ABS systems as the ABS action will entrain air into the fluid. Most of the modern cars use a closed system with the rubber bladder to reduce the amount of moisture in the brake fluid. Our older cars have a vented system that allows air to replace the fluid as the brake shoes wear and to compensate for temperature changes of the fluid. I don't know what problems you had with Dot 5, but I am not alone in being satisfied with it. There are many others that have had it in their cars for years without it causing any problems. Tom
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| deluxe40 | -- 08-28-2010 @ 9:04 AM |
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I have two old Fords with Dot 5 fluid. I went through a couple of copper washers getting it to stop leaking when I rebuilt the brakes, but both cars have now been in service for more than 12 years without problems. They go out at least once each month for a 20 mile drive.
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| fredster | -- 08-28-2010 @ 4:24 PM |
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Thanks for the reply. A buddy of mine helped me and said my brake shoes was installed backwards.the shoe with more lining should be in the back he said.The right is installed wrong as well but why did it not leaked?so whats going on here? I noticed that when i put the brakeshoes on top of each other the lenght of the part that pushes the piston is longer than the other brake shoe.the brake shoe with more lining has a longer tip that pushes the piston , but the wheel cylinder's large bore side also has a longer bore so it make sense to have the shoe with more lining to be on this side.So did i really have the shoe on backwards but since it's not leaking anymore, I shouldn't complain right.I did not switch the right side shoes cos i'm not convinced the shoes are on backwards. So please shed some light on this dilema......thanks b29fred
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-28-2010 @ 4:50 PM |
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TOM O What ever works for you, to much money and to many problems.for me to even think about using,DOT 5 SILICONE BRAKE FLUID. the wheel cylinders froze tight on the 1962 MERCEDES BENZ DIESEL,had everything new, 6 wheel cylinders,[ 4 IN FRONT ] and all new hoses and new master cylinder, this is the way it worked, one day you have a fantastic pedal, then the next day you drive down to the end of block and hit the brakes and the pedal goes to the floor, scared the xxxx out of me, took the car home. rebleed the brakes with regualr brake fluid,had no probems for years.and then sold the car, on the 48 CHEVY STATIONWAGON,was a customers car, all new wheel cylinders, all new metal lines new rubber hoses,and new master cylinder,.nothing else to replace, about a year later. went to bleed the brakes because the pedal was soft,and the brake pedal stuck to the floor, master cylinder piston stuck down at the bottom,had to rebuild with new parts and rebleed the brakes and got a great pedal and problem solved with regular brake fluid, so you can see why I have no interest in using, this fluid was made for aircraft,and later motorcycles started using,and I am thinking for race cars, I do use and like the syntheic brake fluid,sold by VALVOLINE, about $5.00 a quart and mixes with regular fluid and is rated DOT 4, just my 3 cents worth. SILCONE BRAKE FLUID ,,ALSO IT ATE UP THE NEW STOP LIGHTSWITCHS, if you use a hydraulic sopt light switch. people blowing thier horns because of no stop lights, was not a pleasant experience.FOR SURE. 37RAGTOPMAN an KEEP ON TRUCKIN,, This message was edited by 37RAGTOPMAN on 8-30-10 @ 4:50 PM
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| supereal | -- 08-29-2010 @ 10:13 AM |
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The shoe with the longer lining ("primary shoe") faces toward the front, and is activated by the larger diameter side of the wheel cylinder. The shorter shoe is called the "secondary" shoe, and faces toward the rear. Anyone who doesn't agree with this should consult a reliable shop manual.
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| 37 Coupe | -- 08-29-2010 @ 1:40 PM |
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My results from using Dot 5 synthetic over last 25 years : Way more positive than negative.
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