| Bill4d1merc | -- 08-24-2010 @ 12:14 PM |
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I removed the heads and intake manifold on my 24 stud 59 style engine because the intake valve is stuck on cylinder #6. The lifter moves up and down fine but Looking down from the intake side there is some rust. I'm thinking there may have been a coolant leak in that area as the rest of them are in better condition. I have been spraying penetrating oil on the stuck valve and tried hitting it with a dead blow hammer but it's not budging. I am considering putting a block of steel between the lifter and the valve and rotate the engine to use the cam to push the valve out. Is this a bad idea? Any suggestions would be appreciated Bill
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| supereal | -- 08-24-2010 @ 3:06 PM |
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Bill: I assume you did get the fork that holds the valve assembly out first. Normally, the valve assembly then comes up out of the block. In very tough cases, it is necessary to cut off the valve head and drive the guide down from the top. Be careful about hammering because it can result in block damage. Don't try to force the valve up with the lifter. The lifter is hollow, and will break, and the camshaft may also suffer. Rust in the valve pocket isn't a good sign. It may indicate that the block has been frozen and cracked. If you have one bad valve, it is time to pull them all for inspection and rebuild.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-24-2010 @ 3:21 PM |
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I am with super on cutting the valve head off and driving it dowm and out,this is the easiest and quickest. also what's the sense knocking your self out. you will be replacing the complete valve train anyway, reusing these parts is a waste of time, not unless you want to do it a few times. use modern valves for modern gas. its bad enough doing this job once, be sure to inspect the old headgasket for signs that it may have been the problem of leaking coolant,and the surrounding area for any signs, have the block by a compentent engine shop. you do not want to rebuild a bad block and end with the same problem. hope this helps 37RAGTOPMAN an KEEP ON TRUCKIN,,,,
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| MG | -- 08-24-2010 @ 3:22 PM |
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I agree with supereal on this. You don't wnt to chance damaging the lifter or the cam. Another trick is to break off some chunks of Ivory soap and stuff them into the valve bore if the valve is stuck open or through the intake hole. Melt the soap with a torch. Melted soap is one of the best penetrates I've found to loosen metal parts.
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| supereal | -- 08-25-2010 @ 9:46 AM |
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At our shop, we replace all the "mushroom" valves with new stainless straight valves and one piece guides, along with all new valve springs, seats and adjustable lifters. It is worth the expense because it is likely you will never have to do it again. Many of these old engines were allowed to accumulate gobs of sludge in the valve chamber which accelerated wear over the years.
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| 51f1 | -- 08-25-2010 @ 11:19 AM |
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If you haven't seen the sludge that can accumulate in these old engines, you need to (or maybe you don't). It's unbelievable. My old engine had sludge in the valve chamber that looked like platelets. That's the only way I know how to describe it. Hopefully, modern oil and frequent changes take care of that problem. Richard
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| supereal | -- 08-25-2010 @ 12:06 PM |
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Richard: We used to call that stuff "black Jello", and scoop it out by the handfuls. Early cars, and some tractors, actually had a large cleanout panel on the bottom of the oil pan to allow removal of sludge. Non-detergent oil allowed the oil contaminated with water and combustion byproducts to settle out. The advent of detergent oil kept the solids in suspension so the filter, even the bypass type, could catch it. Old Henry didn't think much of filters, so only wide clearances and over engineering helped preserve our old cars.
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| Bill4d1merc | -- 08-26-2010 @ 1:59 PM |
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Thanks for the replys. I have been trying to get the valve to free up without removing it. I did not realize that the valves came out as an assembly. I have not removed the valve guide bushing retainer yet, I do not have a valve lifter tool or the hook to remove it. I think I can probably make these. I have 2 more questions: What is the advantage of SS valves and one piece guides? Is C&G the best place to purchase these items? Yes there is a nice layer of sludge built up on the walls of the valve chamber, haven't seen the lower end yet but suspect that will be just as nice. Once cleaned up I am thinking of painting with Glyptal inside the engine block, I believe this might help prevent the buildup. Thanks Bill
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| supereal | -- 08-26-2010 @ 2:25 PM |
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The valve has to come out as a unit with the guide. The hole in the retainer fork usually breaks, and you may have to pull it out with a ViseGrips or other tool. We use stainless valves and one piece guides because they seem to run better on lightly used engines. You can obtain these from C&G, or any other full line vendor. I don't know of any internal coating that will diminish sludge buildup. The best was is to make frequent oil changes with a high detergent oil, such as Sh*ll Rotella, which is a very high detergent formula for diesel engines. You will be very surprised at how much sludge come out with that oil.
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| TomO | -- 08-27-2010 @ 7:47 AM |
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If you are only replacing one valve, go with the original style. I would not change over unless I was doing a complete overhaul. Buy or borrow the valve guide tool and use pliers or a hose removal hook to pull the retainer. I suspect that you will have to cut off the head and drive the guide down from your description of the condition of your engine. You will need the tool to put in the new valve. Tom
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| supereal | -- 08-27-2010 @ 11:24 AM |
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I can't disagree with Tom, but as you say you are unfamiliar with the old style valves, be aware that the stem must be ground to achieve the correct clearance between the valve and the lifter. This requires the use of a valve grinding machine for accuracy. The face of the new valve must conform to the shape of the seat, as well. Many seats in old engines have been ground to odd angles, and simply dropping in a new valve may not be possible.
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