| MrHenderson | -- 10-21-2024 @ 3:39 PM |
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I have a bare engine on the 36 chassis. I need to pull the front crankshaft gear off, and brother do I need a hint. The pan is off, and I'm staring at a gear. What now, I don't see any way. The picture is WHY I need it off.
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| pauls39coupe | -- 10-21-2024 @ 6:44 PM |
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Why do you need to pull the crank gear? I can't tell from the photo. If you do, the crank needs to come out of the block and a gear puller attached to the gear. You may need to use a bearing puller on the back side of the gear then attach a gear puller to it. K.R. Wilson made a tool for the job, but they are hard to find.
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| MrHenderson | -- 10-22-2024 @ 4:57 PM |
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Thanks for your thoughts. I guess I don't have to take it off. Is it pressed on AND has a key? I thought it might be work around. My issue is with the timing take a look at the cam gear placement. I think it is incorrectly installed. The engine starts dependably and runs-but rough. After I opened it up I set up #1 TDC comp. That is the picture if I uploaded correctly. Note the cam timing mark UP, as well as the crank mark. Is that right? The engine was overhauled in '77 but I am just now getting to finish the vehicle. I think the factory cam timing mark is the 1/4" "notch" in line with the distributor groove. This message was edited by MrHenderson on 10-22-24 @ 4:59 PM
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| carcrazy | -- 10-22-2024 @ 10:23 PM |
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You do not need to remove your crankshaft gear! You just need to rotate your crankshaft one revolution to have the crankshaft gear and the camshaft gear timing marks line up correctly for TDC on #1 cylinder power stroke. You have them shown at the TDC position of #1 cylinder intake stroke.
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| 40 Coupe | -- 10-23-2024 @ 4:29 AM |
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The crank rotates twice for every revolution of the cam. The timing marks do not line up at TDC which is typical for the early flat head . You are correct the cam gear timing mark is at 12:00 you can also see the small scratch by the gear teeth as well as the mark on the ID of the gear. The mark on ID of the cam gear should line up with the small scratch in the face of the cam which is about 5:00 from your photo. Ford used K R Wilson tools and they made a crank shaft gear puller as well as installation tool. If you want to remove the cam gear suggest drilling the ID of the gear next to the cam. This usually releases the press and allows the cam gear to be removed. This message was edited by 40 Coupe on 10-23-24 @ 5:22 AM
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| MrHenderson | -- 10-26-2024 @ 6:05 AM |
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So are you saying that the cam gear is oriented incorrectly, as I believe? There is a small scratch on the camshaft at the cam gear. (a little hard to see) Is the tiny triangle shaped mark @ 5 o'clock a factory mark? I used it when I reinstalled the camshaft. That made the valves closed at ignition point, but the intake is late according to the procedure in the FORD chassis repair manual. (checks cam position by flywheel teeth) This picture is the position I used to reassemble the engine. I don't think it meets the "approximately three teeth before TDC ex." as it is described in the chassis manual. But it starts instantly, runs with 18" vacuum, and sounds so good after 47 years. The difference is that I never had to raise the distributor timing plate all the way up back then. Bottom line for me is this, and tell me if I'm wrong. The maximum incorrect assembly of the cam gear to camshaft is 1 tooth. So it could be less. I stopped adjusting with both valves closed at TDC ready to intake. Will moving it one more tooth be worth the trouble? I feel good! thanks! This message was edited by MrHenderson on 10-26-24 @ 10:07 AM
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| 40 Coupe | -- 10-27-2024 @ 6:26 AM |
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Your second photo has a red line on the cam face timing mark, it is just a scratch mark. The cam face timing mark should align with the cam gear inner timing mark. The cam gear outer mark should align with the crank gear timing mark the two timing marks will be adjacent to each other not 180 degrees apart. You have to remove the cam gear to get the marks aligned.
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| kirkstad | -- 10-27-2024 @ 10:45 AM |
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I believe that "carcrazy" is correct!
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| TomO | -- 10-27-2024 @ 11:14 AM |
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This should make it more clear. The red marks align the cam gear with the camshaft and the green marks align the camshaft with the crank gear. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 10-27-24 @ 11:20 AM
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| MrHenderson | -- 10-27-2024 @ 12:11 PM |
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TomO, I wish I could edit the pictures like that. That makes it crystal clear because I was already concerned (sure) that the engine shop incorrectly pressed the gear on the camshaft. (In 1977) I can make that correction in an afternoon, But I don't have an afternoon this week. I will report back though because the adjustment from first picture to second picture made a lot of difference in the start and run. Now I just need Henrietta to idle like she used to. But one more thing. The slot in the cam with your red dot is more aligned with a tooth than a valley. I think that means I can't get it perfect. Should I put the crank tooth with a dot, one valley before or one after the aligned tooth. I hope that makes sense. Thank you all for you comments and great editing. Brad This message was edited by MrHenderson on 10-27-24 @ 12:22 PM
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| carcrazy | -- 10-27-2024 @ 2:38 PM |
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What is the elevation at the location where you measured manifold vacuum? I once bought a car in Boise and thought something was wrong with cam timing until I found out that the altitude there is 4,000 ft. above sea level. The 17 inches of Hg measured was right on the money for that condition. This message was edited by carcrazy on 10-27-24 @ 7:17 PM
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 10-27-2024 @ 3:47 PM |
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hi i think that the cam gear might have moved,, it might have spun on the cam, they do come loose, you will never get it to run correctly I would to repaice the camshaft with a BOLT on cam gear [ it will be worth it in the LONG RUN,] also replace the crank gear, I removed this using a gear puller, you can also drill by the key way, be carefull to catch the filing, [MAGNET] hit with a chisel and split the crank gear, it will fall off, when installing a new crank gear, heat it up on a stove, besure to use plyers to hold the HOT GEAR, My 2 cents 37Ragtopman,Maine
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| 40 Coupe | -- 10-29-2024 @ 6:01 AM |
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Toms photo of the green mark on the cam face is not a timing mark. As I have mentioned previously the red line you drew on the cam face is the cam timing mark (small scratch). I agree with all the other red and green marks. This message was edited by 40 Coupe on 10-29-24 @ 6:05 AM
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| 40 Coupe | -- 10-29-2024 @ 6:20 AM |
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Below is a photo of a timing gear on an engine that is siezed so I can not align the cam gear timing mark with the crank gear timing mark. but the photo shows the location of the cam face timing mark and how it is aligned with the cam gear.
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| TomO | -- 10-29-2024 @ 11:43 AM |
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40 Coupe's photo is showing a different manufacturer's gear, so the timing marks are different styles. The red marks that I added to your photo are correct. I agree with 37ragtopman that the gear probably moved, with the clear markings, only the most careless person would press the gear on that far off. Because you are going to have to remove the camshaft to install another gear, ( you should not try to reuse the cam gear. Even if it was installed wrong, you have a much higher chance of it slipping.) I would go with replacing the camshaft with one that accommodates the metal bolt on gear. The pressed on gears have been known to slip and change the timing. Ford went with the bolt on gear in 1940. The fiber gears are quieter, but prone to having teeth break off. Third Generation has NOS Ford stock camshafts or you can go with a performance camshaft that will give yo a rolling idle. https://thirdgenauto.com/product/nos-1932-41-ford-camshaft-for-bolt-on-timing-gear/ Tom
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| MrHenderson | -- 10-29-2024 @ 2:07 PM |
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Wow, I'm the new guy here, and I didn't intend to stir anything up. That said, I was hoping the edited picture with the color dots would be right. But that sets the distributor drive slot vertical @ TDC and although it's been a few days now, I don't think my distributor was ready to spark. Plus my old Ford book describes marking TDC on the flywheel, and that the intake valve is some state of open. So you back the engine until intake is closed, turn forward until it starts to open. At that point the flywheel should be "approx" three teeth before TDC. Mine was 4 1/2 teeth, so I started looking. After every ones help I decided I would try to get the camshaft position correct and forget about various marks on the cam gear. The mesh now is like the picture of the seized motor would be at TDC. I'll be on the lookout for slippage and I have lots of pictures to compare. I wasn't able to upload the instructions I mentioned. May try again soon.
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| MrHenderson | -- 10-30-2024 @ 2:31 PM |
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The text image is from the Ford Chassis Repair Manual for '32 -'36. I'd like to see what comments come from reading those instructions. My engine is set as shown in the gear picture -arguably correct, but not according to the text. Now it's just a challenge for me. Is it the notch, or is it the nick? I feel bad that I brought it up. I'm Brad, thanks for thinking about it.
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