| jirving | -- 08-16-2010 @ 6:12 AM |
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We have a '34 Ford woodie, that needs to be moved 300 miles. Is it OK to use a towing dolly? The car has a 3 speed manual transmission, and is all original. Would it be better to tow her on the back wheels? Is it necessary to remove the driveshaft? John
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-16-2010 @ 6:31 AM |
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RENT A TRAILER,!!!!!!!! That is a beautiful ride, keep it that way, LESS CHANCE of somebody running into it,with a tow dolly the back and sides are exposed if you can pull a tow dolly, you can pull a trailer. much easier and safer, and you can back up if you have to, was wondering does the car run? why not drive it,??? this is my 3 cents, 37RAGTOPMAN an KEEP ON TRUUCKIN,,,!
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| supereal | -- 08-16-2010 @ 8:40 AM |
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Rent a U-Haul flatbed car trailer. They are not expensive, and can be dropped at your destination. Today, with most major routes being multilane racetracks, it just doesn't make sense to tow much of anything, particularly a valuable old car.
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| Stroker | -- 08-16-2010 @ 3:32 PM |
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I have a 38 woodie, and there is no way I would tow it 300 miles on a dolly unless I was trying to escape an advancing foreign army. Removing the drive shaft is not a practicable option, as it has an enclosed torque-tube drive assembly. Since you are moving a vehicle that is worth 6-figures, I'd put it in an enclosed trailer at the very least.
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| trjford8 | -- 08-16-2010 @ 7:16 PM |
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I agree with Bob's advice. Rent a U-Haul car trailer. They tow just as easy as a dolly and you car is much safer. I have used U-Haul car trailers on occasion and they are worth every penny of the rent fee.
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| deluxe40 | -- 08-16-2010 @ 7:31 PM |
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Using a tow dolly would be my fourth choice, after: 1) driving the car myself with a companion following in a truck with a tow dolly and a come-along (or a AAA card), 2) hiring Reliable Auto Carriers or the equivalent to move the car in one of their big orange trucks, or 3) renting a U-haul car trailer as super said. Nevertheless, you can get away with using a dolly, if you are willing to take the risk. My RV limits gross towing weight to 3500 lbs which is less than a car trailer plus a Ford V8. I wanted to take my car and the RV to the V8 meet in Temecula, so I towed it on a dolly, about 400 miles round trip - no problem. More recently, we had to evacuate in the wake of a fire so I took my '41 Delivery project along on the car dolly (see picture). This also worked fine (and the house didn't burn down either). Finally, if I understand how the Ford V8 transmission works, towing a V8 with the back wheels down results in spinning the transmission rear main shaft while the main drive gear and cluster gear are stopped. The bearing between the rear shaft and the main drive gets oil through a small hole in the main drive gear because a spinning cluster gear throws oil all over the place. Moreover, the front of the transmission is elevated when on the dolly so the bearing between the two shafts might be above the oil even if you start the engine every hundred miles or so to spin the cluster. Real mechanics can correct me (please do), but it seems to me that this bearing, running with out oil, would eventually be damaged.
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| jirving | -- 08-17-2010 @ 7:06 AM |
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Thanks for the input. We've driven this trip many times in the '34 woody, but this hills of Vermont are sometimes a challenge for the cooling system. I think we have that problem resolved, but better safe than sorry. We'll rent a trailer. John
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-17-2010 @ 11:44 AM |
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on your cooling system, did you try one of Skip HANEY'S cooling system overflow valve ? I been using one all summer with no loss of any coolant, and with his pumps , even on a hot day on the highway speeds, runs around 180,on cooler days, runs 160, this is on a 37 FORD CABRIOLET, also have 2 of his rebuilt pumps Keep on Truckin, 37 RAGTOPMAN
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| 1934 Ford | -- 08-17-2010 @ 3:35 PM |
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I towed my 34 Tudor on a tow dolly to 2 Glidden Tours. One was Florida to New New Hampshire and back. With the Tranny and differential full, no problem. However!!! I had put Ford truck wheels with radials tires on the rear, for safty. One blew out and a trucker called me on the CB or I'd never have known. Tore up tailight wires and damanged the rear fender. Then, I bought a trailer! 300 miles? Drive it for the adventure.
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| supereal | -- 08-18-2010 @ 9:47 AM |
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Towing for long distances with the rear wheels on the ground at highway speeds will expose the bearings in the axle, hubs, and the torque tube to enough stress to cause a lockup in the worst scenario, with wreckage as a result.
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| 1934 Ford | -- 08-18-2010 @ 10:25 AM |
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Supereal, I worried about that too, but decided that it was no more wear than driving it. Can you explain why it's it's worse? As a precaution, in the evening I jacked up a rear wheel and started the car and ran it thorugh the gears to lubricate everything. I thought with gear lube so difficult to get off anything, it would cling for 500 miles of towing. Right? Now I use a trailer, but for 300 miles, wouldn't it be the same as driving it?
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-18-2010 @ 11:50 AM |
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The flip side of the lack-of-lube question is the car strapped to a trailer without the benefit of wheel bearings spinning. We know of the wear on the bottom side of rear axle housings, so it figures that that wear can imprint to those several roller bearings trapped beneath the worn housing. I would think that in 300 miles, you'd get more road rash damage than any other damage, and for that reason would opt for the enclosed trailer if I couldn't drive it, which would be my first choice. Alan
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| Stroker | -- 08-18-2010 @ 4:21 PM |
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Alan has raised an interesting issue with trailer hauling. As a former Bonneville racer, I can attest to the fact that we never hauled a race car in a trailer without first putting the axles on axle-stands. The reasoning was that traveling down the "Super-Slab", the vehicle rocks back and forth within the constraints of the tie-downs. This "back and fourth" movement tends to work the wheel bearing (rollers/balls), over the same 1/8th-inch path on the bearing race. In theory, this can create "pockets" in the races. I cannot attest to the efficacy of this, but it was considered proper procedure to not let a hauled vehicle ride in a trailer on its wheels. I hauled my Bonneville racer to the Salt Flats, and El Mirage over a 10 year period never letting the tires touch the trailer floor.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-19-2010 @ 10:03 AM |
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Stoker just read your theory on the bearing,jack stands and trailering, I think putting the car on jack stands on a trailer, had to do more with keeping the tires ROUND,in not causing flat spots on the tires, before a speed run,, more then damaging the wheel bearing? you would think being hardened steel that would really be hard to do, almost impossible,[ NOT UNLESS HAD DIRT IN THEM ] what about all the new cars trucked accross the country to new car dealers,also the cars on trailers. going to car shows,all over the world. but this only my thought on this. 37 RAGTOPMAN and KEEP ON TRUCKIN,!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| supereal | -- 08-19-2010 @ 10:12 AM |
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34: The difference is that prolonged high speed towing presents a different set of stresses. Most "regular" driving is a series of stop and go, which allows the lube to be redistributed. Using the correct fibrous bearing grease to pack the rear hubs will help, but most axle housings show ample evidence of spalling, and if the bearing rollers are also rough, it can bring big trouble. According to the "square law", doubling the speed will increase wear by a factor of four. Most of old car driving is at considerably lower speeds.
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| Stroker | -- 08-19-2010 @ 3:35 PM |
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37: The Land Speed racers would disagree with you, as the famous "Goldenrod" LSR (Summers-Bros. Liner) suffered bearing damage on it's inaugural trip to the Salt in 1964. I never wanted to take a chance, so I just accepted my mentors advice. I hauled my little record-holding "Lakester" about 28,000 miles between here (Iowa) and the "Flats" over that 10 year sojourn, and it was a such a simple matter to put it on stands before I tied it down in the trailer, so that's what I did. Yes, I agree that tires also benefit from not standing in one place as well, but our main concern was bearings. Remember that the balls/rollers are just as hard as the races. An old family friend, Tom Spalding (who made Flathead and OHV racing ignitions in the 50's & 60's), would not succumb to the "popular" ball-bearing point plate craze that was prevalent in the late 50's for the same reason. The constant back and fourth movement of a distributor point plate is not an ideal application for a ball or roller bearing. An Oilite or simple bronze bushing was far preferable in this kind of application, as ball and roller bearings tend to "work the same area" over and over, with the result that pockets are formed in both the internal and external races. I was probably being "over-cautious" in my situation, as I had Timken tapered rollers for front wheel bearings, and Timken's in the rear as well. It just seemed so easy to put the beast on stands that I made it a habit.
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| Norm | -- 08-19-2010 @ 5:46 PM |
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Stroker is right - bouncing up and down without bearing rotation causes "Brinelling" and subsequent bearing failure with anti-friction bearings. It is particularly a problem with highly loaded ball bearings when they are static but subjected to intermittent loading (like riding on a bouncing trailer). The force at the point of contact exceeds the normal material strength of the race material (even though it's hardened), causing local fractures. Roller bearings are less likely to succumb to this problem, but any ball bearing could. Norm
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-19-2010 @ 6:17 PM |
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It pretty interesting, I never thought about it much , when I trailerd cars back and forth,about the wheel bearings, but after you think about why take the chance on a race car, everthing counts, but this is the first time, I ever heard of a bearing failure due to trailering a car on it wheels. and not the bearing was not installed correctly, or a defective bearing was installed at the get go, but anything is possible that's for sure,, keep on truckin 37RAGTOPMAN
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