| Erbleding | -- 02-25-2024 @ 6:40 AM |
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UPDATE: PROBLEM SOLVED. I’ve asked about the horns on my 36 before and I’ve made some progress, thanks to the feedback from this group. I’ve finally gotten my horns to work, but not at the right time. When pressing the horn button on the steering wheel, I get nothing. But when I depress the starter button, the horns Blair. This makes it a little embarrassing when starting the car in public, not to mention making it difficult to hear when the motor starts. The car seems to have a new wiring harness. Not sure where to start looking. Could the wires be switched? Bad ground? Bad insulator in the horn button? Any help would be appreciated This message was edited by Erbleding on 3-4-24 @ 4:06 AM
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| trjford8 | -- 02-25-2024 @ 7:33 AM |
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Sounds like a wire is on the wrong post. Get a wiring diagram and use it to trace all the wires and connections. Is it a stock wire harness?
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| Erbleding | -- 02-25-2024 @ 11:03 AM |
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Yes, it appears to be stock and newer, but I’ve heard stories of the harness suppliers mixing positions on the wires. I’ll check that out. Thanks
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| juergen | -- 02-25-2024 @ 1:26 PM |
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Enclosed is a picture of the 36 Ford wiring diagram. The starter button wiring is missing but it is a direct connection to the starter relay. The button applies a ground through the dash which energizes the starter switch. This works (as your car starts) so that connection is good. This wire should not go anywhere else. The Y(ello) from the battery is directly connected to the horns. The second connection on the horns (BLY goes to the lighting switch at the bottom of the steering column where it is connected by the horn rod to the horn button where it is grounded through the horn column. I can't see where a ground connection to the starter relay would ground the wire to the horn button. Happy hunting.
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| carcrazy | -- 02-25-2024 @ 6:54 PM |
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There seems to be some confusion here. If the car is wired up the way Ford originally made it, there is no instrument panel mounted starter button. On 1936 and earlier Ford passenger cars, the starter is energized by pushing the starter switch located on the floor which provides a direct connection between the starter motor and the battery. With this setup, there is no solenoid nor starter button.
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| fenbach | -- 02-25-2024 @ 7:28 PM |
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Sounds to me like you have the hot wire to the horn connected to the wrong post on the starter button under the floorboard. It should be connected to the hot side. Pressing the starter switch must be sending current to the starter and to the horn. But if I am correct, the other wire to the horn is permanently grounded, which it should not be. Making me think the contact at the bottom of the steering column isn't releasing or there's a short inside one or both horns. The one lead to the horn from the starter switch is always hot. Pressing the horn button grounds the horn to close the circuit.
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| JayChicago | -- 02-26-2024 @ 6:52 AM |
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fenbach's explanation seems logical to me.
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| juergen | -- 02-26-2024 @ 7:03 AM |
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My bad, I assumed the 36 was like a 37. Does the horn button spring back on release, breaking the contact?
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| Erbleding | -- 02-26-2024 @ 7:07 AM |
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Yes, horn button has good spring and releases how it should
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| Erbleding | -- 02-26-2024 @ 7:08 AM |
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Yes, I have a floor starter button
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| 40 Coupe | -- 02-26-2024 @ 8:16 AM |
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Is your battery connect + to ground? It should be.
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| Erbleding | -- 02-26-2024 @ 9:04 AM |
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This is looking down through the engine compartment to the starter switch. Does this look right? Sorry, but I know nothing about auto electrics or electrics in general
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| Erbleding | -- 02-26-2024 @ 3:26 PM |
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40 Coupe. Yes it is This message was edited by Erbleding on 2-26-24 @ 3:27 PM
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| 40 Coupe | -- 02-27-2024 @ 8:18 AM |
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On the floor starter motor switch, one terminal has just the battery cable to the starter motor. The second terminal should have three wires: the battery cable to the battery (- ) terminal, one Yellow wire to the dash ammeter, and a second Yellow wire to the horns. Study the wiring diagram that was previously posted or go to Mac VanPelt web site for the wiring diagram. I believe there may be another wiring issue also. The club has a 35-36 restoration guide with the wiring diagrams included.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 02-27-2024 @ 10:29 AM |
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36 Horn problem if you hit the starter and the horn blows, you are feeding the horns, and if they blow they have a ground, it could be the horn rod, or short in the wiring, I would disconect the wiring on the horns, now take a jumper lead from one side to hot 6 volt wire, and connect , now take a another jumper lead and touch the other terminal and see if it blows, take the bulb on the bottom of the steering column off, you will see a contact in the center of the bakelite and hook to the bottom of the steering column, this is the contact that feeds the horn rod its ground, have someone in the car, hook a test light to a hot lead, battery , then then touch to test light to the lightswitch rod,contact on the bottom of rod, have some try blowing the horn button , the LIGHT SHOULD light up this test the lightswitfch rod, that it does not have a short the horns are fed electric when the key is on, it is in the grounding of the horn button the make s the horns blow, let us know how you make out, who wired the car ? DID YOU BUT it this way ? more INFORMATION would be HELPFULL Hope this helps 37Ragtopman, Maine
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| BRL | -- 02-27-2024 @ 10:59 AM |
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Hi 40 Coupe: In addition to what has been said on this post, you should also make sure your horn(s) are both wired internally correct. Each horn should have 2 wires coming out of it. Each wire should NOT be electrically conductive to the body or mounting bracket of the horn. You can simply check this with an ohmmeter. If either wire IS electrically conductive to the body and mounting bracket, the horn will still work but you have a horn problem that will create other weird wiring problems and potentially burn up some wiring. I base this on the horns and wiring for a 1937 car which I think is still applicable to a 1936 car wiring and horns.
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| Erbleding | -- 02-27-2024 @ 1:59 PM |
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37ragtopman, Thank you for the information. I will try what you suggested. The car had been completely restored, which included new wiring, but it sat for an unknown number of rears afterwards. I’m wondering if the yellow wire in my photo should be moved to the other post on the starter switch?
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| Erbleding | -- 02-27-2024 @ 2:08 PM |
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Here is a photo of where the wires from the switch are connected to the horns
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| 51woodie | -- 02-28-2024 @ 2:53 AM |
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E. From your previous picture, it looks like a yellow wire goes to each terminal of the starter switch. Both of those yellow wires should be on the same terminal as the cable that comes from the battery.
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| JayChicago | -- 02-28-2024 @ 9:27 AM |
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That's not what I see in that earlier pic. I see two yellow wires (sharing one connector) on the terminal with the battery cable. The other terminal has one fat wire (coincidentally yellow), which I assume must be going to the starter.
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| Erbleding | -- 02-28-2024 @ 6:11 PM |
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I just double checked and ther3cwasca yellow wire that was attached to the post that did NOT go to the battery. So I removed that wire and attempted to move it to the post with the other yellow wire and the wire that goes to that battery. When I touched the wire to the post, sparks flew
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| 40 Coupe | -- 02-29-2024 @ 8:17 AM |
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Never do wiring on a car with the battery connected! The sparks are from the horns trying to sound due to a second problem. If you can get to the horns you can disconnect the second wire on each. Hard to tell from the wiring diagram but it appears to be Black/Yellow wire. Then with the battery disconnected move the Y wire on the foot starter switch. Reconnect the battery and the horns should not sound. If the horns do not sound reconnect the B/Y wires on both horns. If this works out report back today and we will continue to find the problem area, tomorrow. Problem may lie in the light switch or the horn wire in the steering column. This message was edited by 40 Coupe on 2-29-24 @ 8:35 AM
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 02-29-2024 @ 8:18 AM |
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I would take the bulb on the bottom of steering column and see if you have wires touching, seems to me you have a dead short, it might be the light swtich rod, take a test light, attach to a hot contact, now use the pointer and attach to the bottom of light switch rod, if it lights up you have a short in the rod, if it does not light up have someone push the button down and if it lights, your light switch rod is OK let hear how you made out, 37Ragtopman,Maine
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| 40 Coupe | -- 03-03-2024 @ 8:17 AM |
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Looking for your reply.
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| Erbleding | -- 03-03-2024 @ 2:08 PM |
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Wanted to thank all of you for your help. With your guidance I was able to get my horns working. 40 Coupe, you were spot on. I needed to move the horn wire over to the hot post on the starter switch. Now I feel much safer driving the car. Thanks again
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