| ClassicCarGuy2 | -- 07-12-2023 @ 6:30 AM |
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Hello Group: Little brief intro: I, I'm sure like many of the other members am a "Classic Car Guy" (senior) that have owned, wrenched on, enjoyed, and flipped many. I also host a local cable PodCast titled: Street Scene Power Hour which can be seen on Youtube if you wish to Google it; with that said: A recent find, now in the back garage: a 1954 Ford Custom Line. With all my finds, I enjoy finding out as much as I can about the Make, Model, and Year; this brings me to this Club/Forum. 1st Question: The seller told me that the car was transferred from a 6-volt system to a 12-volt system. It now has the alternator running on it. Q. What is involved in the transfer; not simply exchanging the generator for an alternator; the car started right up, I drove it (highway speeds - 60-65 mph) a good 50 miles home, then when I went to restart; the batter went dead. Not sure if she is charging or simply a bad battery, but before I look into it, would like some additional information on the conversion, 6 volts to 12 volts. I'm sure I will have many more questions and I'm sure I will enjoy the group Regards; JPL/Ohio
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| carcrazy | -- 07-12-2023 @ 12:48 PM |
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When you convert an old Ford from a 6V positive ground to a 12V negative ground electrical system you need to do the following: Use a 12V Battery Install a 12V Alternator (preferably with internal regulator) Reverse the polarity of the system to negative ground Install a 12V Starter Motor - the 6V one can be converted to 12V by changing the Field Coils Install a 12V Ignition Coil with internal ballast resister Install 12V light bulbs to replace all the 6V bulbs Convert the radio for 12V operation Replace Heater Motor with a 12V unit Use a "DA" Plug to connect the 12V Alternator to the existing wiring harness - this will allow the engine to stop running when you turn off the ignition switch off. Use a "Runtz" voltage drop for each of the electrical gauges Reverse the polarity of the Ammeter or charge indicator so it registers current flow correctly
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| ClassicCarGuy2 | -- 07-13-2023 @ 8:27 AM |
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Truly appreciate the reply: here is what I am running into, my problem. Picked up the 54 about 50 miles from me. Was told (?) that it was an older "Restoration", and sat in a barn with a bunch of other Classics; Estate Sale, was Sold. The seller bought two cars, kept one, and was selling this one....so although he was very upfront, didn't know much about the "History" of the Ford; to continue: She started right up, good test drive, steering a little lose but "hands-free" drove straight, shifted fine (3 On Da Tree). I bought it and that day drove it 50 miles home, mostly highway, 60-65 (if the speedometer is true), No problems. A few hours later, jumped in to show my son-in-law, about a mile from me, she started right up - at my son-in-law's home, went to start, the battery was dead. This brings me to my "Post" and "Q": I was told it was a "12 Volt Conversion" and it does have the "Alternator" on it; the problem is, I'm not sure who did, when or what was did on the "Conversion" - Were all the right components as you noted exchanged? It appears to be a "one wire" alternator, and that wire is not connected or came off, which I believe simply goes to the "Positive" cable. Looking under the hood, driver's side; there is a bunch of wires, connectors, etc. that are disconnected, not sure what they service or if they were part of the "old" 6 Vlt system and simply disconnected, not in use or needed. That is where I am at.
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| carcrazy | -- 07-13-2023 @ 2:18 PM |
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With so many unknowns, you have to start somewhere. Here are my recommendations: See if you can find a #10 Gauge Yellow with Black Tracer (Y/B) wire in the bundle of disconnected loose wires in the engine compartment. This wire originally went from the Generator Armature Terminal to the Voltage Regulator. Then see if you can find a #10 Gauge Yellow (Y) wire. This wire originally went from the Voltage Regulator to the Battery - Terminal when the car had a positive ground system. Perform the following steps: 1. Connect the long end of the Y/B wire to the Alternator Terminal. 2. Connect the other end of the Y/B wire to the Y wire end near the Voltage Regulator and insulate the connections so it won't short out against anything. 3. Locate the long end of the Y wire and connect it to the Battery + Terminal for the new negative ground system. 4. Check to be sure the large wire from the - Battery terminal is connected to a good ground. 5. Make sure the large wire from the + Battery terminal is connected to the Starter Solenoid. 6. Once you have done this start the engine to see if the Alternator is charging. A simple way to check for this is to hold a screwdriver against the smooth side of the rear bearing area of the Alternator. If it is charging there will be a strong pull on the screwdriver as Alternators produce magnetism when charging. Highly recommended is the purchase of the 12V Conversion Guide offered by Fifth Avenue. Hope this helps solve your vehicle issues. http://fifthaveinternetgarage.com/technical_publications.php
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| TomO | -- 07-13-2023 @ 5:24 PM |
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Or you could just get the engine started, connect a voltmeter between the POS post of the battery and ground. Increase the engine speed above idle and read the meter. It should read around 14 volts. My guess is that your alternator has a shorted diode that is allowing it to drain the battery. Tom
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| ClassicCarGuy2 | -- 07-13-2023 @ 7:32 PM |
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Once again, truly appreciate the help. As I noted in one of my posts; my biggest concern is how the 12 volt. the conversion was done, what was and should have been changed. As I was back in the shop today, just checking out the car; I decided to clean the engine so I have a little "cleaner plate" to work, on and inspect. I noticed one small "white" (add-on) wire that looks like it is connected to the Alternator, where it should be but loose, just hanging there. Possibly could have become disconnected, but tomorrow I'm going to connect that to the Pos cable and then use the Voltmeter. It's a nice ride, has good bones, and drove great home, 50 miles, highway speeds; a lot of "thumbs up", so going to start working, cleaning her up. I'll attempt to log some pic. Again, many thanks
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| pauls39coupe | -- 07-14-2023 @ 4:44 AM |
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Try Tom O's suggestion before you hookup any loose wires. If that white wire goes to the top of the alternator you may not have a one wire alternator. Some GM type alternators need to be "excited" before they will charge. The two prongs at the top of the alternator are used for this purpose, and they need to be connected to a power source which can be turned on and off to prevent the alternator from draining the battery or burning up the alternator. There are a dozen ways to hookup GM style alternators. It is hard to sort out long distance, unless you understand a lot about the wiring process. I would suggest you visit a mechanic who specializes in electrical work.
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| carcrazy | -- 07-14-2023 @ 7:28 AM |
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If you don't take the car to an expert to get your electrical problems sorted out, you really need to read the previously mentioned, "The Official 12-Volt Conversion Guide" by Fifth Avenue.
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| trjford8 | -- 07-14-2023 @ 7:51 AM |
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Follow carcrazy's advice and get the book. It sounds like you currently have an ugly mess in the current wiring. You can also purchase some inexpensive wiring kits with fuse panels that have directions such as EZ Wire , Kwik Wire, etc. Lots of options from e-Bay, Amazon, Summit, etc. Starting from the beginning is usually easier than trying to fix somebody's "Rube Goldberg" idea.
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| 51504bat | -- 07-14-2023 @ 10:08 AM |
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When I converted my '54 Ranch Wagon with a 302/AOD to 12 volts I completely rewired the entire car using a 9+3 wire kit from Rebel Wiring. USA made and excellent tech support. JMO ______________ No signature
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| ClassicCarGuy2 | -- 07-14-2023 @ 11:40 AM |
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Understand the concern with "jumping into the unknown" when it comes to wiring, but being around for some time I've replaced several wiring harnesses, repaired a number of them, and "somewhat" know my way around the systems; what I am dealing with here (as previously noted) is what was done in the past; now with that said: I do have to consider that the 12 Vlt conversions was done some time back, and the car has been driven for a long time after the conversion: - alternator doesn't appear newly installed, - all the bulbs are now 12 vlt.; - gas gauge, = temp gauge work, - lights, - turn signals work, so I'm thinking at one time it was working, and now it is not. I'll let the group know how many fuses I blow or if I ruin the system once I jump into it. Take care
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| ClassicCarGuy2 | -- 07-15-2023 @ 7:12 PM |
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Well; I guess I'm pretty "Old School" when it comes to cars. Part of my love for cars all these years, and now the "Classics" is finding out the problems and fixing them myself; been doing this since I've been 14-15 years old, and now in my early 70s, still doing it. Had dozens of old cars, American, Eruro, and a few Japanese Classic. Each car, year, and model has its little unknowns; and finding out what they are is what I find interesting about the hobby; so "take it to an expert", well that won't work for me. I'll talk to a few experts, or others who had the same problem and can send me in the right direction, but I'll be doing the work. Truly appreciate all the information; I will check out The Official 12-Volt Conversion Guide" by Fifth Avenue book out. Sure I'll have some other hey "what about this " questions and appreciate the replies.
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