| thirtysixford | -- 05-27-2023 @ 12:35 PM |
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Anyone using one of these alternators? I'm thinking of finally converting from 6 volt pos ground to 12 volt. Still have a working original radio was trying not to eliminate. Pros and cons on pos or neg ground? The fan on my car is bolted directly to the generator, I don't see this configuration on any of the conversion units. Thanks
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| voced | -- 05-27-2023 @ 5:06 PM |
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Mike; I have the same original set up on my 36 and don't have any problems. Do you like that 6 bladed fan? I have one but haven't put it on yet. Someone said they roar a lot more than the 4 blade fan. Jerry
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| 51woodie | -- 05-27-2023 @ 7:09 PM |
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I have a six blade on my ‘46, and it is a bit noisy when accelerating, but fairly quiet at cruise. The engine runs at 180 deg , even at slow speeds around town.
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| Sneezer | -- 05-28-2023 @ 4:03 AM |
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I have one for sale. Ran it for 2 years w/o a problem. Its a 90 amp unit. Had the alternator on a 49 Mercury motor in a 1935 coupe. Made a spacer do to the need for long shaft waterpumps. Adapter goes with it. Removed when I sold the car. $145 plus shipping.
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| JayChicago | -- 05-28-2023 @ 6:15 AM |
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ThirtySixFord You didn’t say why you want to convert to 12 volt. What’s wrong with what you have now?
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| 1931 Flamingo | -- 05-28-2023 @ 8:39 AM |
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They make them in 6 volt also. Paul in CT
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| thirtysixford | -- 05-28-2023 @ 11:11 AM |
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The fan roar was defiantly awful with the 4.44 rear gears the car had when I bought it. Just changed to 3.54 but haven't got everything complete and haven't driven it yet. I have had the car since 1990, over the years lots of issues with slow cranking, dim lights etc. Have spent lots on good cables, making sure connections are clean and tight but there always seems to be an issue. Been stuck too many times with a car that won't start. Once when driving it at night a car came flying up from behind and nearly wiped me out. At he next light the guy was screaming that he couldn't see my taillights. Grand kids love riding in it, but it has to be safe.
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| fenbach | -- 05-28-2023 @ 4:46 PM |
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I have the 6V, positive ground alternator on a '36. It came with a pulley for mounting the stock fan. Years ago. With it I can use halogen headlights, available from Drake , also years ago. And an electric radiatorfan and a radio and halogen tail lights, all at the same time. I did double up all the wires to handle the substantially increased amperage. No need for 12V IMHO.
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| carcrazy | -- 05-28-2023 @ 9:07 PM |
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Contact the folks at the Fifth Ave. Garage (www.fifthaveinternetgarage.com) for info. on changing your electrical system from 6V to 12V. They can supply the pulley you need to run your original cooling fan on the front of your new alternator. Provided you don't mind having a later model alternator on your engine, you can use an alternator for a 1978 Chevy Camaro with 350 V-8 engine and A/C. This is a Model 10 SI with a 63 amp output. It is available from Autozone under part number DL7127M. (Duralast alternate P.N. is NS7127-3). Get a rebuilt unit and the cost will be very friendly. You will also have to pay a $10.00 core charge because you won't have an old one to turn in. This alternator is 12V negative ground which is compatible with modern radios, cruise control units and most any other modern conveniences you might want to ad. This message was edited by carcrazy on 5-28-23 @ 9:09 PM
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| thirtysixford | -- 05-29-2023 @ 10:55 AM |
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I have the halogen headlight kit, better but still lacks a bit. Taillights are dismal. I contacted Powermaster, but the customer service rep I got didn't have a clue if they had a unit that would allow me to use the original fan. Also said they don't make a 12 volt pos ground unit. Now thinking the 6 volt pos unit like Fenbach has might work Like him, I would run extra heavy wires to the lights etc Summit is one of the suppliers for them, but again, I don't see anything my fan setup would work with. Maybe the alt/gen pulley on the units can be replaced with the Ford unit that will accept the fan?
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| carcrazy | -- 05-29-2023 @ 12:01 PM |
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The pulley you need is most likely available from Fifth Avenue, phone 785- 632-3450. It is part number 14415FP. It provides both the mount for your fan and the proper 2.5" diameter pulley for your alternator to charge properly at idle. The stock Ford pulley has a diameter that is too large for the alternator to charge properly. Alternators have to spin faster than generators to function as intended.
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| Sneezer | -- 05-30-2023 @ 6:50 AM |
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Someone replied privately to my for Sale item, the Powermasters alternator. I was unable to access the message. If still interested email me at apleuss@charter.net
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| TomO | -- 05-30-2023 @ 8:43 AM |
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Driving at night in an old car is a challenge. Most drivers today are used to the large bright LED tail lights on the modern cars. Changing to 12V will not make your tail lights as large or as bright as the modern cars. Before I went to LED bulbs,a club member was driving behind me in her modern car and she said that I was driving without tail lights. When she saw the lights in the parking lot, she said they were much brighter than her 40. Evidently the new headlights tend to wash out the small lights on our cars Make sure that you have at least 6v at the tail light pig tail with the engine running at about 20mph. Use a paper clip as a probe for your meter to get inside the bullet connector. If you don't have 6V, your bulbs will not be able to provide nominal brightness. Optimum brightness come in around 6.5 V. Halogen bulbs draw too much current for the 6V wiring. A better solution is LED bulbs. I put LED bulbs in my 40 Merc and they are bright, but drivers still scare me by changing lane at the last minute. Here are 2 photos of my Merc tail lights. The first is with the garage lights on to simulate brightly lit streets and the second is with the garage lights off to simulate dark streets. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 5-30-23 @ 8:56 AM
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| Mike_Van | -- 05-30-2023 @ 6:39 PM |
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I agree that LED lights are the way to go and you probably can use a generator. I bought a 12 volt rebuilt generator for a 60's Ford and used the front cover, pulley and fan from the 6 volt gen. The rear cover has a mounting tab that can just be trimmed off. It is an AC Delco unit from Rockauto, inexpensive and looks like new, not rebuilt. You can get LED headlight bulbs from LogoLites, 6 or 12 volt positive or negative ground.
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| thirtysixford | -- 05-31-2023 @ 7:15 PM |
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Wow, lots of good info here....thanks to everyone Need to think this over a bit, don't want to do it twice.
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| thirtysixford | -- 06-01-2023 @ 9:35 AM |
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TomO I would be happy with lights like in your pictures. Is this a 6 volt system? If it is, I'm leaning towards keeping the 6 volt pos ground setup with a Powermaster alternator setup if I can keep it looking somewhat like what I now have.
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| thirtysixford | -- 06-01-2023 @ 10:42 AM |
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Really trying to avoid putting a GM alternator on the flathead I'm sure it would work, but....... I see this Powergen unit available 6 volt pos ground Front mount looks similar to what's on my 59 AB except the fan does not mount to he unit. I haven't disassembled my generator so I'm wondering if anyone knows if I can take the pulley assembly off my generator and put it on the Powergen.. Would the pulley line up with water pumps etc? Powergen couldn't answer
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| carcrazy | -- 06-01-2023 @ 12:33 PM |
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One thing you can do is eliminate the mechanically driven fan altogether and use a radiator mounted electrically driven fan on the back side of the radiator.
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| thirtysixford | -- 06-01-2023 @ 2:19 PM |
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Just removed the fan leaving the generator still installed. The generator shaft is independent of the fan. you could run the engine without the fan and generator would still function. The 1/4 -20 bolts holding the fan to the pulley are only 1/2 inch long and have a lock washer so not much thread is holding it on.. doubt this is right, If the fan came off, some expensive parts would be toast. An electric fan would work, but how many amps is a 6 volt fan? I have a feeling the PowerGen uses a Mitsubishi or Denso alternator so the shaft is probably metric. Might be able to do something with the pulley carcrazy mentioned but it's probably not metric as well. Nothing is easy.
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| TomO | -- 06-02-2023 @ 8:46 AM |
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Both of my cars are 6 volt POS ground with a generator. I would stay with the stock generator. I do use a battery tender on both cars to keep the battery at a full charge. There are problems getting an alternator to charge on the older cars. Supereal explained this in one of his posts on the use of an alternator. Search on "alternator" all forums and all dates and user name "Supereal". The bolts holding the fan to the generator pulley should be 1/4"-28 x 1/2". There are many cars still running with the generator mounted fan. If the bolts are tightened properly, they should hold the fan in place. Keep in mind that changing one component of an electrical system affects all other components is some fashion. Tom
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| CharlieStephens | -- 06-02-2023 @ 9:56 AM |
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The reason you don't find alternators that accept the pulley mounted fan is that the front bearing in the alternator isn't heavy enough for the load of the fan. Someone may have solved the problem but I haven't heard about it. I hate the look of an alternator on an old flathead unless it has been reworked to fit in a generator housing. I would look for a 2 brush generator with a front mounted fan and have it converted to 12 volts, an easy job for someone that knows what they are doing. These generators will be hard to find, keep looking, calling, and posting ads. It has been several years but I think they were for '39 standard among others. I would go 12 volts negative ground (not positive) since that is what modern cars use and you can therefore use modern accessories. Other topic, paint the inside of your tail lights white or line them with tinfoil. Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 6-2-23 @ 10:00 AM
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| RAK402 | -- 06-02-2023 @ 9:22 PM |
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I wanted my car (1940 Fordor Deluxe) to be as stock as possible, but was having issues with being able to run the radio and the headlights at night. I have an electric fan, but could not use it at a prolonged idle (where it was most needed) as the generator would not keep up with it at idle. How much of this was caused by 80 year old generators that had not been properly re-built, or my ineptitude in trying to adjust the voltage regulator, I do not know. I saw several alternators from well known sources that looked like the correct generator, but had what appeared to be GM fan/pulleys on them-I could not stand the look. I think it was from this forum that I found E. J. Whitney, who takes stock generator parts and makes stock looking alternators with stock-looking (although slightly smaller diameter) pulleys. I brought him an old generator as a core. I think it took 4-6 weeks for the finished product. It wasn't cheap, but it was well worth it,IMHO, and I was able to keep my 6 Volt positive ground setup (and my stock radio). I have had one installed for about two years now-it has been working great so far. This message was edited by RAK402 on 6-2-23 @ 9:25 PM
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| thirtysixford | -- 06-03-2023 @ 10:44 AM |
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Great point Charlie That front bearing is critical. RAK402 does E J Whitney still make these? What is his contact info? Thanks
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| carcrazy | -- 06-03-2023 @ 12:27 PM |
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Thirtysixford, I have what is believed to be a 1937 Ford 3-brush generator which originally had a generator mounted fan. This unit is available. If you would be interested in purchasing it as a core to be made into an alternator, please send me a PM.
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| CaliforniaBorn36 | -- 06-04-2023 @ 9:33 AM |
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One of the best things you can do for visibility is add a third brake light in the rear window. This is where people are looking now. I used the "Brakelighter" third light in my all original 1936 and it worked great. It works with turn signals as well. It can be mounted with suction cups if you want to hide it when showing your car. Very easy to install. This is a brakelight, not a taillight, so keep that in mind. Also, how about adding reflectors, there are some cool vintage ones so they won't look out of place, or clip on/magnetic lights to supplement your taillights in the rear if you choose to drive at night, these can be battery powered or rechargeable, so don't draw on your car battery.
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| thirtysixford | -- 06-04-2023 @ 1:04 PM |
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Stumbled upon this https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/early-flathead-ford-v-8-generator-2-brush-vs-3-brush.1205314/ CharlieStephans looks like you nailed it.
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| thirtysixford | -- 06-04-2023 @ 1:28 PM |
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How did I miss this? https://ejwhitneyco.com/automotive.html they are 20 miles from my house
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| RAK402 | -- 06-04-2023 @ 2:18 PM |
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thirtysixford, I just came back in, sat down at the computer, and saw your message. Looks like you have already found E.J. Whitney sir-sorry I was so slow.
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| thirtysixford | -- 06-04-2023 @ 4:01 PM |
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RAK402 no problem at all I wouldn't have found them at all without your help Calling them tomorrow morning
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| carcrazy | -- 06-04-2023 @ 8:58 PM |
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The last year for the 3-brush generator (with generator mounted cut-out) which had the generator mounted fan was the 1939 Ford Standard. 1939 Ford Deluxe model and all subsequent model Ford passenger cars had the 2-brush generator (with external voltage regulator) and remote mounted fan.
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| 1936TWC | -- 06-05-2023 @ 3:14 PM |
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I have a 1936 Ford converted to 12V. Question; How heavy would the wire requirements for a Halogen tail light. Currently, I have a 20 amp fuse. Any other suggestions to improve safety would be greatly appreciated.
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| thirtysixford | -- 06-07-2023 @ 11:10 AM |
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Just dropped off my generator at E J Whitney. Tom is the contact guy there, super knowledgeable and just a nice guy to deal with. He had several examples of his gen/alt conversions including several with the fan mounted on the pulley like mine. He said he could get the conversion done fast. Really excited to getting this installed.
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| thirtysixford | -- 06-07-2023 @ 1:09 PM |
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1936TWC I would assume that with the 12 volt conversion the original wire gauge would be sufficient as long as connections etc are tight and clean ..
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| RAK402 | -- 06-07-2023 @ 4:42 PM |
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thirtysixford, OUTSTANDING!
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