| Catfish Jones | -- 02-05-2023 @ 4:35 PM |
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Good evening. Just joined EFV-8. I have an all original 1938 Ford Deluxe Fordor, with the 85 HP V8, that I just purchased. When braking to come to a stop, the engine dies every time and is difficult to restart. Engine turns over fine. I have had to wait up to five minutes before it will restart. When it does restart, it runs and idles fine. Any help would be appreciated.
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| ford38v8 | -- 02-05-2023 @ 4:50 PM |
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As it will restart after only 5 minutes, I'd say ignition is OK, and look at fuel delivery. It may be as simple as carburetor adjustment, which is a good place to start. Where are you located, and have you joined a local club or only the National? Alan
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-05-2023 @ 4:59 PM |
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I am located in north Louisiana. The only thing I have joined is the EFV-8 club. I’m not aware of any clubs in my area. Some times the engine will restart immediately after it turns over several times. Could it be the float level setting? Had that problem on a Model A once.
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| carcrazy | -- 02-05-2023 @ 10:43 PM |
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If you are in the national EFV-8 Club and have the roster, look in it for the name of someone in the same zip code as you. You will find that most of the people in the club are very helpful. Yes, your problem with the car stalling could be caused by the float level being incorrect. Other items that could cause the condition are: loose wire in primary ignition circuit, idle speed screw incorrectly set allowing too slow of an idle speed and/or idle mixture screws turned in too far allowing idle to be too lean to run.
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-06-2023 @ 4:51 AM |
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Thanks for all the good feedback. I just joined the club yesterday. Where do I find the national roster? The idle speed seems to be correct. It only stalls when braking, even at fairly low speeds. If I shift into neutral, brake with my left foot and feather the gas with my right, it doesn’t stall. Are there any publications or websites detailing how to rebuild and properly setup these carburetors?
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| efv8CofAAdmin | -- 02-06-2023 @ 5:59 AM |
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Here is the Current News story about viewing the digital Roster https://www.earlyfordv8.org/Current_News.cfm Look for the first archived story under 2021 Web Administrator This message was edited by efv8CofAAdmin on 2-6-23 @ 6:00 AM
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-06-2023 @ 7:03 AM |
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Thanks very much!
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| 40 Coupe | -- 02-06-2023 @ 7:44 AM |
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Suggest you look at the fuel system also. Check the float level in the carburetor, fuel pump pressure and may want to change the flex fuel line going into the fuel pump from the steel line from the gas tank
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-06-2023 @ 1:01 PM |
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Thanks to all for the valuable input. I'm going to look to see which carburetor I have this evening. Does anyone know of a publication or website that details how to rebuild these carburetors?
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| carcrazy | -- 02-06-2023 @ 3:05 PM |
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This is a longshot, maybe when you apply the brakes something is shorting out the primary ignition circuit causing a loss of spark.
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| Blindhuckster | -- 02-06-2023 @ 5:57 PM |
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Not sure if you have the Stromberg 97 carb, but I found these 4 part videos on Youtube very helpful when rebuilding my 97 carb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBAD1BwoFv0&t=1s
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-07-2023 @ 9:04 AM |
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Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge. My carburetor in a Chandler Groves, I think a model 94. Anyone have any experience rebuilding on of those? Below are some pictures of the carburetor.
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| carcrazy | -- 02-07-2023 @ 9:37 AM |
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The Chandler Groves Carburetor became the Holley 94 Model after 1938. Rebuilding techniques should be similar to those for the Holley.
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| ford38v8 | -- 02-07-2023 @ 11:01 AM |
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Catfish, your carb is indeed a 94, and was manufactured by Ford, as confirmed by the F near the base of the accelerator pump. It is one of several of the era, identical in all but cosmetic respects. One more photo can nail it down specifically as being either 1938 or 1939: the driver side float bowl will be without a mark of any kind (1938), or will have 91-99 (1939) . Both examples are scarce, hard to find, and of considerable value. Rebuilding a 94 is not difficult, but will require specific parts not found in most rebuild kits. I would advise using parts available from daytonaparts.com for functionality, but do not use any colorizing at all. Alan
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-07-2023 @ 11:15 AM |
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Thanks Carcrazy and Ford38V8. Ford38V8 you mentioned “but do no use any colorizing at all” I’m not sure what that means.
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-07-2023 @ 11:25 AM |
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Tim at Daytona parts told me the problem could be the fuel pump is putting out too much pressure. This will cause the level in the bowl to be too high. He said if the pump was rebuilt with an inferior kit, the spring rate could be too stiff. What is the correct discharge pressure for this pump? How do you measure it without cutting and teeing into the discharge line?
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| ford38v8 | -- 02-07-2023 @ 12:31 PM |
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One of the services at Daytona is to restore the color appearance of carbs. My advice is to pass on that option. Tim is correct, new pump kits may include springs that overpressurize your carb, which requires a max of 3psi. The simple fix is to reinstall the old spring if it is still available. Some simple vacuum test gauges can also test fuel pressure. Do not cut the line, just disconnect from carb for the test. The tester will have a rubber push-on connector. Alan
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-07-2023 @ 1:00 PM |
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Great, thanks Alan.
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| sarahcecelia | -- 02-07-2023 @ 4:05 PM |
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If the idle mixtuure screwa sre too lean; the car will stall when you stop. Tryi backing off (out) each one about 1/16th of a turn. Regards, Steve Lee
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| 40 Coupe | -- 02-08-2023 @ 7:54 AM |
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The rebuilding of the Carb. is the same as for the 1939 and 40 Holley or Ford 94 model 91-99 and can be found in the Ford Service Bulletins. Most rebuilding kits contain enough instructions to get you going. The link on the side of the Carb from the base accelerator linkage to the bottom of the round accelerator pump rod should have the letter "C" stamped on it.
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-08-2023 @ 11:40 AM |
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Thanks Guys, I’m going to try these suggestions my next day off.
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| rustedorrotting | -- 02-12-2023 @ 2:31 PM |
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no body mentioned the power valve and from my personal experience, most power valves available to day are not machined correctly and will leak. The valve screws into the carb and the new ones have a radius on the threaded shank of the valve near the sealing surface and will not seal. Charlie's Speed in Fla buys them in bulk and cuts the radius off and sells a nylon seal that works better than original. Imho. Forgot, if you backfire the engine, you blow out the diaphragm and you can take the carb apart and replace it. This message was edited by rustedorrotting on 2-12-23 @ 2:34 PM
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| TomO | -- 02-13-2023 @ 9:24 AM |
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You might want to start by checking the float level. If it is too high, it might be causing flooding when you stop. IMHO Charley Schwendler ( cas5845@yahoo.com ) does the best job of rebuilding Early Ford carburetors. If your carburetor needs rebuilding, I suggest you make the investment and have him do the job for a trouble free carburetor. The best kits come from Daytona Parts has the best kits, but don't use their float valve. I have found them very unreliable in hot weather. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 2-24-23 @ 10:18 AM
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-24-2023 @ 8:24 AM |
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Thanks so much for the input. I have emailed Mr Charley to see about getting my carburetor rebuilt. I am also thinking about getting my fuel pump rebuilt. Someone recommended Terrill Machine in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with Terrill Machine or recommend someone else? Thanks
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| zeke3 | -- 02-24-2023 @ 8:58 AM |
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I recommend having Charlie Schwendler, in New York, rebuild both the carburetor and fuel pump. As part of the rebuild, he will run them on his test engine to confirm everything is correct before returning them to you.
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| TomO | -- 02-24-2023 @ 10:25 AM |
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I have used Terril Machine and they did a good job on the pump. Charlie does a good job also. I would send both the fuel pump and the carb to Charlie, so that you are only dealing with one vendor. Before you send the fuel pump off to be rebuilt, post a photo of it that shows the connections. If the pump is not Concourse correct for a 1938 Ford and you do not intend to show the car on the Concourse, a new pump may be less expensive. It does sound like the engine is flooding out when you stop. This is usually the float is set to allow too much fuel in the bowl. Here is a quick check: Start the car and let it idle for a few minutes to make sure the fuel level is at the max. Remove the carburetor top Using a 6" metal ruler, measure the fuel level. it should be 11/16" -1/16". I like to set it for 5/8" when using fuel with ethanol. Adjust by bending the tab that the needle rides on. I doubt that your fuel pressure is too high. If it was you should have problems at idle. Here is a link to a video of rebuilding a Ford carburetor; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5ETIW7IViI Tom This message was edited by TomO on 2-24-23 @ 10:55 AM
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-24-2023 @ 12:08 PM |
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Thanks Tom, here are two pictures of the fuel pump. I do not plan to show it on the Concourse but I do plan to keep it as original as possible.
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| TomO | -- 02-27-2023 @ 9:37 AM |
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It looks like you have a replacement type fuel pump. The correct pump for a 36-40 vehicle has the outlet port about 1/2" below the input port. It also looks like it is in good condition. The basic rule for enjoying a collector car is "If it aint broke, don't fix it". Here is a photo of a correct 36-40 fuel pump. Tom
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-27-2023 @ 4:54 PM |
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Thanks for that information Tom. Things may have gotten worse with the ‘38. I pulled up to my shop and it dies as normal when I braked. I forgot to turn off the ignition switch. 8 hours later I tried to crank it up. The battery was significantly discharged but would still turn over I thought sufficiently but I now have no spark. Could I have burned the coil open? Haven’t had time to troubleshoot or charge the battery.
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| trjford8 | -- 02-28-2023 @ 8:11 AM |
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Sounds like you have "cooked" the coil.
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| Catfish Jones | -- 02-28-2023 @ 5:45 PM |
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Does Charlie Schwendler also do distributor rebuilds including a rewound/replacement coil?
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| 40 Coupe | -- 03-01-2023 @ 8:13 AM |
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Charlie can rebuild and set timing but does not rebuild coils. Suggest Skip Haney in Fla.
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| Catfish Jones | -- 03-28-2023 @ 11:27 AM |
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Thanks to everyone for their valuable input. I have shipped the carb, distributor, with coil and fuel pump to Mr Charlie. He will forward the coil to Skip for a rewind. I am going to replace the flexible fuel line at the inlet to the fuel pump, it’s pretty stiff. Mr Charlie suggested I contact Bob Shuman. Does anyone have Bob’s contact information?
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| Kens 36 | -- 03-28-2023 @ 1:01 PM |
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The name is Robert Shewman - he used to advertise in the V-8 Times. Here is his contact info from an old issue: e-mail - gadgiteer@aol.com, phone - 610-933-6637. Ken
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| Catfish Jones | -- 03-28-2023 @ 1:16 PM |
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Thanks Ken
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| Catfish Jones | -- 04-28-2023 @ 6:12 PM |
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Good evening all. As indicated in my earlier post, I sent my distributor, fuel pump and carburetor to Mr Charlie for rebuild. Rebuild is complete and are on their way back to me. I need some help understanding how to setup the timing on the early Ford V8’s. I’ve set the timing on Model T’s, Model A’s and small block Chevy’s, I understand the concept. I’ve read that specific equipment is required to properly setup these distributors, which Mr Charlie has done. I understand the distributor can only be properly installed one way with the offset slot in the shaft. Is this all I have to do or is there a setup procedure once installed? Thanks!
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| ford38v8 | -- 04-28-2023 @ 6:54 PM |
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Catfish, You've thoughtfully provided acknowledgement of all the answers we would have repeated for you. Your distributor will be plug and play when installed as you describe. I might make that install a bit simpler for you: The distributor is installed onto the block with 3 bolts. Obtain two longer bolts and cut off the heads, to be used as guide studs in exact placement of the distributor, to be removed/replaced with the correct bolts. (This same procedure can be used in replacing water pumps.) Alan
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| Catfish Jones | -- 04-28-2023 @ 7:08 PM |
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Alan Thanks very much for your reply! Awesome tip to help with the install. Headed to the bolt bin now and grab the Metabo!!
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| 51woodie | -- 04-28-2023 @ 7:50 PM |
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I haven’t read all the replies, but beware that the distributor shaft has an offset “key” that fits into the slot on the end of the cam. Make sure the offsets match and the distributor housing fits snug to the front cover before you tighten the bolts. If they are not aligned (offset to offset) you will break the distributor housing. This message was edited by 51woodie on 4-28-23 @ 7:56 PM
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| Catfish Jones | -- 04-28-2023 @ 8:05 PM |
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Thanks very much for the feedback 51Woodie! Good point!!
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| 40 Coupe | -- 04-29-2023 @ 7:08 AM |
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When you remove the carburetor is there a extra hole in the intake manifold surface for the Carb. If so it must be blocked by the Gasket. Some of the intakes have the hole that leads to the heat riser in the intake. Hot exhaust gases are present and will quickly destroy the Carb. power valve if not blocked. If there is not an extra hole your good.
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| Catfish Jones | -- 05-23-2023 @ 9:06 AM |
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Good morning Thanks very much for all of the great advice that was given to help resolve my stalling issue. Mr Charlie Schwendler really did an awesome job rebuilding my carburetor, fuel pump and distributor. He forwarded my coil to Skip in Florida for a rewind. I bolted the parts back on and now “Millie” runs and drives perfectly! Thanks again!
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| sarahcecelia | -- 05-30-2023 @ 5:56 PM |
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Sounds to me that the 2 idle mixture screws are turned in a little to far; making the idle mixture too lean.When you brake with it too lean the motor will die! When the car is idleing; turn the idle mixture screws in until it starts to get slightly rough, and slows the rpms; the back them out about 1/8th of a turn, or so. it should be idleing smoothly at that point. You may want to repeat this several times to get as right as possible. I learned this when I was a "newbie" at a VW dealer; The shop foreman would take a car I had tuned up for a test ride; a few times he came back and told me when he came to a stop, the motor almost died; he then told me to back the idle mix screws out just a tad to fix it; he test drove it again; and it was GOOD!! Regards, Steve Lee
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| TomO | -- 05-31-2023 @ 11:02 AM |
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That is one fine looking 38 Deluxe. Glad that your problems are resolved. Tom
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| Catfish Jones | -- 06-01-2023 @ 12:44 PM |
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Thanks Tom Mr Lee, that is a valuable nugget of information, thanks for sharing. Since Mr Charlie Schwendler rebuilt my carburetor and fuel pump it now runs perfect. Thanks again
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