| wilsonsk | -- 10-18-2022 @ 10:57 AM |
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I have a 41 Tudor Sedan, I need a water pump with the motor mount on it, from what I can see looking at them I should use 49-53 truck pumps? The 41 car pumps look like the pulleys are set back too far, the Flathead Water Pumps for 1949-1953 Ford Pickup Truck, 1932-1948 Mercury, look like a better fit? Or should I get a kit and rebuild? What should I be getting? Thanks! Steve This message was edited by wilsonsk on 10-18-22 @ 11:00 AM
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| 51504bat | -- 10-18-2022 @ 12:41 PM |
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For an 8ba you need either wide belt truck pumps that have the mounting tab on the pump. They look like the earlier 59 series pumps but they aren't the same. If your 8ba is from a car it will have narrow belts so you'll have to change the crank and generator pulleys to wide belts to use truck pumps. Or if you can find a set of Merc OCM narrow belt pumps you won't have to change pulleys. BUT the Merc pumps aren't repopped and are hard to find. Also, while on first glance the Merc mounting tabs appear like those on truck pumps they are different. The tap on the Merc pump is higher so you need a u shaped spacer to make up the difference in mounting heights. The spacer goes between the pump tab and the rubber mount biscuit. ______________ No signature
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| wilsonsk | -- 10-18-2022 @ 1:17 PM |
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I went out and looked at mine, I am fairly new to flatheads so I'm not good on the finer points. I have two different pulleys, the drivers side is narrow but lines up well with the crank and generator (this is the leaking side). The passenger side pulley is narrow but not as deep and really lines up better with the fan than the generator, crank and other water pump (this side is not leaking). I know this combination has been together for at least 15+ years, my daughter bought it as is 10 years ago, the guy she bought it from had it 5 years and he never really touched it, don't know who did the 8BA transplant or when, no idea how to find them. The belt for the water pumps and generator seems to run fine with the odd pully on it, is the Mercury narrow pulley what I have on the driver's side? Should I just rebuild the driver's side? This is a driver and I like driving it, I have a press and the rebuild doesn't look too bad. Maybe the passenger side looks like a 49-53 car pulley? This message was edited by wilsonsk on 10-18-22 @ 2:54 PM
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| 51504bat | -- 10-18-2022 @ 3:47 PM |
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Attached are some photos of the 8ba with narrow belt Merc pumps in my '39 p/u. They aren't very clear, the sun is too bright. I'll take some better ones later this afternoon. From your photos it looks like you have the narrow belt Merc pumps. Wide or narrow the pumps have 2 different diameter pulleys and each uses a separate belt. If it were me I'd send both pumps to Skip Haney in Punta Gorda, FL for rebuilding. He is up and running again after the hurricane but he may be somewhat backlogged. http://www.fordcollector.com/water_pumps.htm ______________ No signature
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| 51504bat | -- 10-18-2022 @ 6:30 PM |
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Better photos ______________ No signature
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| wilsonsk | -- 10-19-2022 @ 4:34 AM |
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Can you tell from my pictures if I have Mercury or truck pumps (with narrow pulleys) now?
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| 51504bat | -- 10-19-2022 @ 6:10 AM |
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From what I can see my guess is that you have the narrow belt OCM Merc pumps since I can see the mounting tabs and the belts appear to be narrow not wide.. Look at the attached photos of a set of Merc pumps I had and the one for wide belt truck pumps that I got off the internet. You can see the difference in the mounting tab heights on the Merc pumps. ______________ No signature
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| wilsonsk | -- 10-19-2022 @ 6:19 AM |
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I went out and compared mine more closely, they are the Mercury pumps. I emailed Skip to check on lead time on rebuilding mine, any other solution winds up being the same money or more and involves more work and risk of broken parts. I can get my belts right then as well. Hopefully turnaround is quick, this is prime driving time in Minnesota, the heater works well, no salt or snow on the roads for another month or better.
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| carcrazy | -- 10-19-2022 @ 2:19 PM |
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If the late truck pumps have a mounting flange that is higher than what you need to line the engine up in the car, you can use flat washers of the correct diameters and thicknesses to allow the engine to be mounted properly. Also, if the pullies aren't of the proper type, they can probably be swapped with ones to suit the type of belt that is compatible with your crank and generator pullies. This message was edited by carcrazy on 10-19-22 @ 2:20 PM
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| wilsonsk | -- 10-20-2022 @ 6:43 AM |
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Is there any difference in the hole location other than height between 49-53 truck mounts and Mercury mounts? This 8BA is in a 41 Ford car, there are stacks of hard rubber spacers under the Mercury ears and all-thread going all of the way through. the distance from the frame to the bottom of the water pump ears is 3" total. It's not pretty but it has worked for years. I am thinking about getting new 49-53 truck pumps so down the road someone else isn't faced with this same issue. I can change the other pulleys to match, then everything would be 49-53 truck and easy to come buy off-the-shelf. My question is, will I just need to cut my spacers to match the difference in height? Or is there a difference in spacing/location of the holes as well? If I were starting from scratch with a 41 car and an 8BA, would 49-53 pumps bolt up to my frame? I am checking with a local guy to see if he will rebuild my pumps, if so I will probably do that. Skip hasn't replied. I'd like to get this buttoned up, this is my favorite time of year to drive it.
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| TomO | -- 10-20-2022 @ 8:47 AM |
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The correct E-Mail for Skip is: skiphaneyfl@aol.com His website is: https://skipscoilsandpumps.com/ Tom
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| wilsonsk | -- 10-20-2022 @ 10:13 AM |
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Thanks for the info, a previous post… “Attached are some photos of the 8ba with narrow belt Merc pumps in my '39 p/u. They aren't very clear, the sun is too bright. I'll take some better ones later this afternoon. From your photos it looks like you have the narrow belt Merc pumps. Wide or narrow the pumps have 2 different diameter pulleys and each uses a separate belt. If it were me I'd send both pumps to Skip Haney in Punta Gorda, FL for rebuilding. He is up and running again after the hurricane but he may be somewhat backlogged. http://www.fordcollector.com/water_pumps.htm” has a different website that has a different email address.
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| carcrazy | -- 10-20-2022 @ 1:00 PM |
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To the best of my knowledge, the 1948 to 1952 Ford Truck F-1 water pumps with the wide belt (11/16") pullies should bolt up to your engine and function properly. Also the holes should be in the proper location to bolt up to your frame with spacers. If you want to put smaller belt (3/8") pullies on these pumps, Dennis Carpenter has them under part number 8BA-8509-B. Carpenter also claims to have a set of the Wide Belt Truck Pumps (new) in stock under part number 8RT-8501-PR. Hope this helps.
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| wilsonsk | -- 10-20-2022 @ 1:34 PM |
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That does help, thanks, i hit up Skip at the updated email I got for him, I’ll give him a day or two, I kind of want the hi flow pumps but I also would really like to get it converted to more common parts for later or the next guy.
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| wilsonsk | -- 10-20-2022 @ 2:39 PM |
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I found the pair of pumps on Carpenter's site. I did see the shallow passenger side pulley for an 8BA, the deep pulley he has is for the goes up to 48 cars, 47 trucks, is the shaft diameter the same between the two style of pumps?
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| wilsonsk | -- 10-26-2022 @ 8:06 AM |
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I bought a pair of truck pumps, they fit perfect, the stock motor mounts were under the stack of rubber spaces they had under the Mercury pump ears, it sits in the and bolts up perfect, looks much better under the hood and the motor sits a little lower than it did, makes the fan sit better in the fan shroud. I am running a 1/2" belt as a compromise for the time (i ran out of patience and just wanted to drive it). I think I have found everything I need to convert the rest of it to wide belt truck stuff over the winter. Is there a market for my Mercury cores?
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| carcrazy | -- 10-26-2022 @ 12:02 PM |
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Congratulations! Glad you were able to find a solution to your problem. Enjoy driving your '41 Ford Tudor!
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| wilsonsk | -- 10-27-2022 @ 10:58 AM |
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"Congratulations! Glad you were able to find a solution to your problem. Enjoy driving your '41 Ford Tudor!" Thanks, it drives great and runs good. These pumps are one less 70+ year old time bomb to worry about. One of the old ones must have been making noise, the engine is noticeably quieter now. I have wide fan, crank pulley and generator pulley on the way. Now to just keep picking away at other things.
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