Topic: engine binds

Bill4d1merc	-- 07-20-2010 @ 4:00 PM
	I was trying to rotate the engine by hand today and it got stuck. I finally got it to rotate the other way and when the crank was just about one full turn the opposite direction it started to bind again. It seems to bind in the same spot each time with no signs of freeing up. the spark plugs have been removed. This engine was running about 5 years ago but has been sitting ever since. The engine is the 59A style. Seeing this is my first time working on a flathead I would like some suggestions as to what to look for before I start tearing it apart. Bill
supereal	-- 07-20-2010 @ 4:05 PM
	Any engine that has sat for that long could have anything in the cylinders. We have found mouse nests and other things, such as wasp nests, etc. It also may have a cylinder with water in it, but usually that will be expelled when the spark plug is out. The last one we had like that had an assortment of small nuts and bolts that someone apparently dropped in. It will be interesting to hear what you find when the heads are off. Be sure to post that info.
Cecil/WV	-- 07-22-2010 @ 5:33 AM
	Or perhaps a stuck valve. Shiny side up! Cecil/WV
37RAGTOPMAN	-- 07-22-2010 @ 10:56 AM
	what you can do is vacuumn the cylinders. use a small shop vac, make a adapter,[ use a pipe and some duct tape,]so it will fit down the spark plug hole, vac one cylinder, then check the vacuunm for dirt, rust etc, then do another and see if you are picking anything up,if not dirt spray RUST BUSTER in the cylinders and see if you can rotate the engine, and do the valves on the springs and guides, etc,, lets hear how you made out, 37 RAGTOPMAN KEEP ON TRUCKIN,,,,!!!!!!!!!1
Bill4d1merc	-- 07-22-2010 @ 5:16 PM
	Thanks for the suggestions. I tried the vacuum and got a little oily residue but nothing else. Just bought a brand new shop vac today so everything inside the vacuum was clean when I started. I was considering removing the intake to check that lifters and valves are moving freely but I think it's more likely a cylinder problem seeing the crank will not rotate past one full turn. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and remove the heads as Supereal implied. Bill
sturgis 39	-- 07-24-2010 @ 2:36 AM
	WHEN WORKING ON STUCK MODEL A ENGINES I HAVE FOUND THE DISTRIBUTOR IS USUALLY THE PROBLEM WHEN THE ENGINE WILL ONLY ROTATE 350 DEGREES.THEY SEEM TO COLLECT MOISTURE AND STICK THE ENGINE. THIS MAY NOT BE TRUE FOR A V8.
supereal	-- 07-24-2010 @ 7:44 AM
	It is also possible that leftover coolant froze and caused damage to a cylinder wall. We have seen that more than once. Until you get the heads and oil pan off, all of this is just speculation.
Bill4d1merc	-- 07-30-2010 @ 3:33 PM
	I removed the cylinder head on the drivers side today and found a clump of dirt and rust that had caked up on the lower side of the #5 cylinder. when I rotated the crank the piston came up knocked the dirt off and didn't bind anymore. When I removed the head gasket I noticed that a couple of holes had rust built up from the water passages. One of the holes in the gasket is much smaller than the hole in the block or head. the hole in the block is about 1" in diameter and the hole in the gasket is closer to 1/4". I think that this may be the wrong gasket. Any suggestions on replacement head gaskets? Bill
supereal	-- 07-30-2010 @ 3:46 PM
	First, be sure which engine you have. Count the studs to see if it is a 21 or 24 stud engine. Look at the top of the clutch housing for cast numbers such as "59". There was a factory directed change in heads and gaskets. The "new" design gasket had round holes in the middle, while the old style has square-ish holes. Looking at the underside of the heads, the top hole (the one nearest the outlet) should be 3/4" and the third from the top should be 5/8". If not, drill them to that size and order the "new" style 59A head gaskets.
Bill4d1merc	-- 07-30-2010 @ 4:00 PM
	It has 24 studs with 59AB heads haven't measured the holes but they look close to 3/4" and 5/8" Bill
tbirdhandyman	-- 08-03-2010 @ 10:28 AM
	Hi Bill, One thing that I did not do and I should have after my engine sat idle for 10 years: I did not replace the front & rear seals. The engine had no leaks when I sold it, but after I bought it back and started driving it again, it really leaks bad, both front and rear. Now would be the time to replace yours. Regards, Tbirdhandyman
supereal	-- 08-03-2010 @ 10:59 AM
	In the case of a bad leak, instead of the usual seepage around the crank seals, it can often be attributed to overfilling of the oil pan. While many books specify 5 quarts, the correct fill is 4 quarts if there is no oil filter. Synthetic or semi synthetic oils tend to leak more around the primitive rope seals due to their low surface tension.
Bill4d1merc	-- 08-03-2010 @ 2:41 PM
	Thanks for the advice Robert, I will be replacing the seals. As for the head gaskets, looking at the pictures in the catalogs the later style looks to be similar to what I removed. The top hole is 1" the middle hole is more than 1" and the bottom hole is only 1/4" on the gasket I removed. The block has a triangle-shaped hole at the top and the other 2 are 1" round holes. The head has 3/4" round holes top and bottom and 5/8" in the middle. Is there a reason the bottom hole of the gasket would be restricting the water flow? Also I discovered today that one valve is stuck open. Bill
supereal	-- 08-03-2010 @ 3:10 PM
	Bill: The head modification info came direct from a Ford bulletin. I don't know how they came to the changes, but I assume they are to aid cooling. Circulation always was a problem in the old style heads. That is one reason they changed to the outlets on the front of the heads in '49. If you replace the rope seals, be sure to soak them for a few days in motor oil, or opt for the Kevlar type that don't need soaking. A stuck valve is an indication that the engine likely needs a full teardown. Engines that have sat for a long time usually require, and will benefit from, that work. In the process, you will learn a lot about it. Compared to the new engines, flatheads are very easy.
TomO	-- 08-04-2010 @ 8:56 AM
	The lower hole was made smaller in the head gasket in order to improve cooling. The idea was that the hotter water would be at the top of the block and the cooler water would be a the outside or bottom of the block. The change was to keep the cooler water in the block longer and allow the hotter water to exit the block to the head and then to the radiator. Tom
supereal	-- 08-04-2010 @ 9:35 AM
	Tom: I've always been surprised that Henry didn't adopt the distribution tube arrangement so common back then that conducted the cooled water from the radiator first to the back end of the engine, particularly since the exhaust was routed down thru the water jacket. A good many straight block engines used it successfully. I suspect someone had to convince him that water pumps were necessary, anyway, instead of his preferred "thermo siphon" that began with the Model T.
TomO	-- 08-06-2010 @ 8:13 AM
	Supereal, the distributor tube system had it faults also. Many of them in the lower priced cars rusted out within a few years and they were a large pain to replace, requiring removal of the radiator and sometimes the grille. Then you had to fish out all of the pieces, because they never came out in one piece. Tom
supereal	-- 08-06-2010 @ 10:13 AM
	Yes, I recall that the Mopar engines, particularly Dodge and Plymouth, had problems with the tubes decaying. Back in those days, methanol was used as an antifreeze, as was salt water, etc, which likely contributed to the problem. After Ford went to the outlets on the front of the heads, we didn't hear much about overheating.
tbirdhandyman	-- 08-09-2010 @ 12:55 PM
	Supereal: I need to let you know off-forum about research that I have done related to this discussion. Please give me contact information at fordes57@comcast.net. Thanks, Robert E. Tbirdhandyman

EFV-8 Club Forum :	https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum
Topic:	https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=1578