| 40merc | -- 07-20-2010 @ 9:30 AM |
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does anyone know where to pick up a Cluster gear ( 29/24,18/14) all helical cut for a decent price? i looked at mac's and early ford V8 sales and they are a little pricy, (325$ & 250$ )as well as a low & reverse slider gear? id like to pick up decent used parts so i can save this transmission
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| supereal | -- 07-20-2010 @ 10:06 AM |
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The cluster gear is expensive everywhere. I believe all are now made overseas, as the machinery was exported over the years. Unless the cluster is missing teeth, they can often be reused if the edges of the damaged teeth are carefully smoothed. I suggest you contact my friend Charlie Schwendler, who specializes in transmission rebuilding. 716/662-9159. He may have what you need.
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| 40merc | -- 07-20-2010 @ 11:43 AM |
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Yeah, im afraid this cluster is no good, there are three teeth where half or more is missing, and the rest of the teeth are extremely worn on one side of the gear that matches the reverse gear. i can immagine this is from some one trying to adjust the clutch or forcing it into gear ( i could imagine this is common?). i would love to reuse the cluster, but i don't really have the desire to take it apart again for repairs. the tranny was bad off when i pulled it out. years of neglect and a big pile of metal shavings inside along with the milk chocolate oil mud inside. after dipping the housing i noticed theres what looks like a wheep/breather hole on the top left side of the tranny? above the linkage on a sideloader. is this a factory made hole or did some one create this? also since im on the subject, on the top of the bell housing there's a number with stars and it reads 99a- (is this original to the 40 merc?) and on the b ack of the housing where the bearing housing bolts on it reads 01A, anyone have any explanation for this? thanks!
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| JM | -- 07-20-2010 @ 12:18 PM |
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Another good source for good used transmission parts is Mac VanPelt. His website is http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm
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| supereal | -- 07-20-2010 @ 4:22 PM |
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01A is the transmission case used from '40 thru '48. I don't recall a breather on the top of a side shift box, but I don't have one out of a car to look at. It is hard enough to keep oil in those transmissions, anyway. I agree with JM that Van Pelt may have your parts. Another good source is Don Baxter, 785/842-9256. Good guy who knows his stuff, and fair prices. This message was edited by supereal on 7-22-10 @ 8:08 AM
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| TomO | -- 07-21-2010 @ 7:22 AM |
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There should be a breather on the transmission. The serial number stamped on the transmission is for a car with the 239 cu in motor. To determine the year go to: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_serialnumbers.htm Tom
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| 40merc | -- 07-21-2010 @ 3:25 PM |
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always interesting to find out what the numbers mean i think! thanks for the link.... i picked up a borg warner cluster for the tranny today, $189 new. and a really decent used (almost new) Low & reverse for 15$ here in town as well as a small parts kit!!! awesome deal. but it still added up (As it always does)
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| Stroker | -- 07-21-2010 @ 4:26 PM |
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Changing-out clusters and low-reverse sliders was for me and most of my contemporary Ford compadre's an almost weekly task (usually on Sunday after "too-many" on Saturday night. We'd go to the "yards" and buy all the transmissions we could find, just to have a steady supply of these expendable parts. In 1954, you could buy just about any flattie transmission for less than $15.00 a pop. I had a homemade spring spreader, which I'd loan to my buddies, because it was quicker to take the rearend loose from the shackles than it was to drop the spring out from the rear cross-member. It was almost like a weekly pit-stop. This was in So.Cal., so if you are looking for clusters, in this area, we beat you to them! Given the effects of inflation in the past 56 years, I think you made out "like a bandit". Glad you could find some non-Chinese parts to install in your trusty case! And.....don't run a hot-rodded Chrysler Hemi 356 ahead of your vintage driveline..EVER!
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| 40merc | -- 07-21-2010 @ 7:36 PM |
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yeah that woul be crazy way to much power for that tranny. im HOPING i can make this transmission last me afew years , ulimatly i would love to adapt a T-5, but id really love to enjoy a rebuilt flatty trans till then.
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| supereal | -- 07-22-2010 @ 7:50 AM |
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One of my first cars was a rickety Model A tudor which was the transport to high school. It was a remarkably tough car, but tended to have transmission trouble in the hilly town where I lived. Finally, we transplanted a V8 into the car, and never had a problem afterward. It appears that the huge flywheel in the four banger was the source of the problem, as it had to be wound up to get the car moving, and the kinetic energy was simply too much for the gears to handle. The V8 introduced the typical clutch "shudder", but reduced the trips to the "junkyard".
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| 40merc | -- 07-22-2010 @ 1:11 PM |
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i have to admit the more i work on the flatheads and the 3spd trannys the more i love them. the original plan for the car was a 350 but once i got the engine running right and starting up everytime, plans change! the only modification underway as we speak is a MII front end, for stopping and steering purposes. the rest will stay original. supereal, your story of the Model A, reminds me of a song called hot rod Lincoln by commander cody.
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| supereal | -- 07-22-2010 @ 1:19 PM |
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Ah, yes. I remember it well, particularly about "the telephone poles looked like a picket fence"! The old "A" could only hold enough water in the cooling system to make it to school, then had to be refilled to get home. Sure contrasts with the high $ cars in the school parking lot today.
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| TomO | -- 07-23-2010 @ 8:38 AM |
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With a flathead engine, there should be no need to change the front end. The stock front end will handle well under normal driving conditions. After all it is part of the experience of driving a 60 year old car. If you drive in heavy traffic conditions, you can upgrade your brakes to the bendix type or go with front disc brakes. There are few stock40 Mercs left and I would not like to see another one go. Tom
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| supereal | -- 07-23-2010 @ 8:58 AM |
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Like Tom, I believe that changing to a Mustang front clip is overkill. The solid axle, if equipped with correct shocks, is often preferred by the street rod guys for its simplicity and ruggedness. You can see such upgrades at www.chassisengineeringinc.com
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| 40merc | -- 07-23-2010 @ 7:45 PM |
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yeah i agree with you on the front end. however, i would like to do it once and right. im not sure what the future plans for the car will be but, at least ill be well equipped. i do have another question though how close should a new synchro ring fit on second and third gear? i got a new set and theres a decent gap. also how should the oil baffles sit on the main bearings? im not sure the way it was when i pulled it apart was correct. This message was edited by 40merc on 7-23-10 @ 10:55 PM
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| 40merc | -- 07-24-2010 @ 8:23 PM |
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has anyone ever had trouble with the main drive and the cluster binding up when the counter shaft is inserted through the cluster?
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| sturgis 39 | -- 07-25-2010 @ 2:07 AM |
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I HAVE SEEN CORVAIR FRONT ENDS USED ON OLD FORDS. MOST OF THESE WERE JOKES. NOW MUSTANG TWOS ARE THE COMMON CONVERSION. I WILL NOT BUY A CAR THAT HAS A FRONT END CONVERSION BECAUSE MOST OF THEM ARE JUNK. IF YOU WANT TO DRIVE A MUSTANG TWO GO BUY THE WHOLE CAR AND LEAVE THE OLD FORDS ALONE. ADVERTISING SELLS AND YOU SEEM TO BE A VICTIM.
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| supereal | -- 07-25-2010 @ 8:42 AM |
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Check the roller bearings inside the cluster to see if they are binding or broken, and that the long and short bearings haven't be switched. They are not identical. Also, be sure the thrust washers on each side of the cluster are correct and in place.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 07-25-2010 @ 8:45 AM |
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STURGIS 39 you are correct, if you want a modern car, BUY ONE, LEAVE THE OLD DISAPEARING FORDS alone, soon there will be no more, just check E-BAY for guys that thought they wanted to be cool and wanted a street- hot rod and once completed or half way done, when much damaged was down to the orginal body, have it FOR SALE, This is for all makes, the other day I saw a guy with a 1937 DESOTO AIRFLOW , with a CHEVY 350 IN IT, IT was nicely done but this was a VERY RARE CAR,GONE FOREVER, and there are many like this, just my opinon. only thing on my 37 is JUICE BRAKES,which was done before I bought it and I installed dual exhausts, still 6 VOLTS after 73 years, and just run with the same FUEL PUMP ,that HENRY FORD installed, SEE PICTURE.... KEEP ON TRUCKIN 37 RAGTOPMAN
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| 40merc | -- 07-25-2010 @ 9:37 AM |
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yeah i actually got new trust washers and needle bearings for the cluster... i put the old cluster in with the new parts, and it works fine, at first i thought it might be the main drive bearing or one of the new needle bearings but its not, i also rolled the counter shaft on a level surface to see if it was warped and its stright as an arrow. i just went out and tried it again with day light, and its wearing more on one end of the cluster then the other at the main drive. its not impossible to turn, but it doesnt feel right. real forced about 180deg. through a full rotation. just seems odd to me. borg warner is purtty good as far as parts go i thought? maybe the case is warped? hard for me to immagine a cluster getting warped, but maybe it was dropped at some point in its life? and as far as the MII front end goes, i understand the concerns about it, and ive had the car for 20 years so ive had plenty of time to think about it. and i would love for it to be my around town car, but with traffic, it would be, in my oppinion, insane to drive that car with juice breaks through heavly congested areas, i would like to see this car live another day not be wrecked because i couldent stop in time because some dimwhit pulled out infront of me. if i lived in the country it would be another story.
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| 40merc | -- 07-25-2010 @ 9:46 AM |
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also i should note, that when the counter shaft is inserted in the cluster, just before the shaft is inserted into the housing on the front end of the housing it spins freely. once it is inserted and aligned is when it binds up.
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| supereal | -- 07-25-2010 @ 3:03 PM |
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Is the cluster binding the input shaft, or the other way around? If the front slinger is backwards, with the outer lip facing forward, it will bind the shaft. Also, be sure your cluster is, in fact, the correct part with the right number of teeth. They tend to all look alike. There are a dozen versions. A chart is on page 292 of the green book.
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| 40merc | -- 07-25-2010 @ 3:58 PM |
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yeah the cluster is binding on the main drive, the oil baffle is positioned so that the bearing can spin freely when it is inside the housing. so the lip of the baffle isnt touching the outer edge of the bearing but it is touching the inside of the bearing that grabs the shaft. i took the thick thrust washer out and tried it again to see if i could even find a place where the cluster would spin free. no such luck. also put a micrometer on the thrust washers to check for an even thickness. it has to be the cluster.
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| sturgis 39 | -- 07-25-2010 @ 7:43 PM |
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THERE IS NO CLEANER LOOKING FRONT END THAN A STRAIGHT AXLE. IF I WAS AFRAID OF STOPPING AN OLD FORD I WOULD INSTALL DISC BRAKES ON THE FRONT AXLE. THIS WOULD NOT REQUIRE CUTTING UP THE FRAME. THEY ALSO MAKE POWER BUSTERS THAT CAN BE MOUNTED REMOTE OR ON THE MASTER CYLINDER. NICE LOOKING 37 RAGTOP. I WOULD PAY A LOT MORE FOR YOUR CAR THAN ONE WITH A MUSTANG TWO FRONT END. OLD ORIGINAL FORDS WILL GAIN MORE VALUE THAN HACKED UP HOT RODS WITH TRENDY ITEMS. NONE CUT CARS ARE GETTING HARDER TO FIND.
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| trjford8 | -- 07-25-2010 @ 8:51 PM |
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40merc, take a look at the disc brake kits sold by Magnum Axle, ECI or Master Power Brakes. I've used the Magnum kit and they will make your car stop on a dime. These kits are easy to install and you can convert to a dual master cylinder.Much easier than installing a Mustang II.
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| silverchief | -- 11-12-2010 @ 3:13 PM |
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Supereal, The transmission from my 46 is on the way back from Charlie Schwendler as we speak. After reading all these questions about what goes where, and should this or that do thus and so - I am glad I took your advice and went with Charlie. As with any specialist - more than parts and labor, you are paying him principally for what he knows. No headaches, and you know it is done right. A bargain.
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| supereal | -- 11-13-2010 @ 9:49 AM |
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Gotta love those sedan coupes! I had a '46 with a flat six that could beat the 8's. The only problem was a buzzing sound in the engine when it was revved. I never found the source before a '50 Merc took its place. I'm glad Charlie fixed you up, as I expected.
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