| DocuResearcher | -- 11-15-2021 @ 2:32 PM |
|
Hi All! I am a Norwegian radio documentary creator, researching the story of Captain Robert M. Losey and Minister Florence Harriman, during the Norwegian Campaign, around the Nazi attack of April 9 1940. April 21 Capain Losey was the first American serviceman to be killed in WWII, by a bomb from a Luftwaffe bomber in Dombås in southern Norway. At the time he was trying to rescue a group of American kids and women trapped by the war. Losey used Minister Harrimans personal car, a 1937 Ford V8 convertible Sedan that was imported from the US, but had Norwegian registration plates - A-15. In the summer of 1940 Florence Harriman was evacuated from Petsamo in Finland (Now Russia), on the troop transport ship USS American Legion. I have talked to the son of her Norwegian driver. He tells me that his father took the train back to Stockholm from Petsamo, so I think that miss Harrimans car was on the boat. Now I want to know if the car may exist today. Florence Harriman lived until she was in her 90s, and died in 1967, and I think that she still had the car. It was important in her life. She lived and died in Washington DC. Could you guys in this forum helm me track down this vehicle? I am also hunting for the flag on the roof of the car. It was used to try to stop luftwaffe from attacking the neutral car. And after Captain Losey was killed, it was used to wrap his casket. He was buried at West Point, and they used a similar flag there. On the pictures you can se Lars Frøislie, the Ministers Norwegian driver. Losey and Harriman on the day before he was killed. Harriman and her German shaefer in 1937, on the day where she got the post as US Minister in Norway, and a screenshot from a wartime film, that shows Captain Losey hiding the car in a barn, to keep it safe from German bombing. Do you all think that the car may exist? This message was edited by DocuResearcher on 11-15-21 @ 2:43 PM
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 11-16-2021 @ 9:21 AM |
|
Florence Jaffray Hurst Harriman dies Aug 31 1967 her husband Jefferson Borden Harriman died Dec 1 1914 Their child Ethel Borden Russell born Dec. 11-1897 and died July 4 1953 her husband Henry Potter Russell dies March 3 1943. Their daughter may be alive she was married in Franklin, New Hamshire Sorry to say your chances are not good in finding the car. The above records came from Ancestry.com
|
|
| mfirth | -- 11-16-2021 @ 11:22 AM |
|
Researcher & 40 coupe, what a wonderful snapshot of real history. THANK you fellas for doing this. A GR8 story & tribute ! mike
|
|
| DocuResearcher | -- 11-16-2021 @ 2:33 PM |
|
I realize that there is a thin chance to find this historical vehicle in 2021, But we have to really, really try to hunt it down. Would it not be great if we managed to find both the car, and the flag, and mounted it yet another time on the roof of the car? This is a photo of Lars Frøislie in his drivers uniform, from the wall of his son. This message was edited by DocuResearcher on 11-16-21 @ 2:37 PM
|
|
| TomO | -- 11-18-2021 @ 8:11 AM |
|
If you have the serial number of the car, you can place a free advertisement at these places: https://www.earlyfordv8.org/Classifieds.cfm https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9 https://forums.aaca.org/forum/184-ford-automobiles-and-parts-buysell/ The V-8 Times editor may also be able to help you, her contact is v8timeseditor@gmail.com Tom
|
|
| DocuResearcher | -- 11-18-2021 @ 3:04 PM |
|
Thanks for your tips Tom! I only have its Norwegian registration number - A-15 It is a number that is reserved for use by the Royal Norwegian Castle, and the most important diplomats. I got the number from Frank Capras movie "Why we fight" from 1943, part three "Divide and conquer", where both Minister Harriman and the death of captain Losey is mentioned. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR1fP8TvM-k I hope to find its VIN-number, or frame number from the Norwegian vehicle archives. Is there a similar archive in the US, or District of Colombia, where miss Harriman lived, where I can find the cars American registration data? This message was edited by DocuResearcher on 11-18-21 @ 3:08 PM
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 11-19-2021 @ 5:34 AM |
|
Capt. Robert Moffatt Losey married Kathryn Leona Gault Banta (1909-1980) on April 10 1933, I see no record of any children. Again this information and photo from Ancestry.com
|
|
| DocuResearcher | -- 11-19-2021 @ 3:06 PM |
|
You Are right. They did not Get any children. She remarried in 1943. His sister got a son, that she called Robert Losey Lee. But he is sadly dead too.
|
|
| TomO | -- 11-20-2021 @ 7:35 AM |
|
Privacy laws in the USA prevent releasing any VIN or serial numbers to the general public. If there is a record of the serial number of the car in DC, they would not be able to release it. Tom
|
|
| DocuResearcher | -- 11-20-2021 @ 3:00 PM |
|
With respect - that's just stupid. Here in Norway you can go to a government page and search to find the owner of any vehicle. Its public knowledge. I have requested all the information that is about Miss Harrimans registration number in Norway. This old archival data is not digitized yet. So they will do a old fashion search in the pre war archive. I will then get the vin-number, for example. But that won't help me search for the car in the US. Thats disappointing. This message was edited by DocuResearcher on 11-20-21 @ 3:09 PM
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 11-22-2021 @ 4:57 AM |
|
TomO is correct about the federal privacy laws here in the US. The law may appear to be stupid but there are a lot of people that abuse personal information, of all types! I suggest when you are able to obtain the vehicle serial number which may appear like, for USA built vehicles: 18-3331857 to 18-4186446 for a vehicle with an 85 HP engine or 54-6602 to 54-358334 for a 60 HP. Contact the editor of the Early Ford V8 Club, V-8 Times magizine or Hemmings motor news They can get the number published to reach many owners. This message was edited by 40 Coupe on 11-22-21 @ 4:59 AM
|
|
| DocuResearcher | -- 11-22-2021 @ 6:32 AM |
|
Thanks 40 Coupe. This is the registration card on Miss Harrimans Ford from 1937. Luckily it includes its frame number. Does it match the series you talk about? I will send the information to the sources you talk about, to se if I can get lucky. The Norwegian vehicle archive by also confirm that the US embassy used A5 on another car in 1945. There is no more data on miss Harrimans Ford. That confirms that the car is not in Norway anymore at that point. Now that I have the frame number, I am able to id the car, if I find it. This message was edited by DocuResearcher on 11-22-21 @ 6:39 AM
|
|
| zeke3 | -- 11-22-2021 @ 8:04 AM |
|
I have enjoyed the story and information you have discovered and hope your efforts are successful. I did not see the chassis serial number listed on the registration document you provided. The number listed appears to be from the body number tag that is attached to the dash panel (aka firewall) in the engine compartment, 78-740-1787. model number =78, 1937 Ford Deluxe body style=740, convertible sedan body serial number=1787 (sequential number for this body style from supplier) I am not aware of any existing documentation that would tie the body number to a particular chassis serial number. The chassis serial number would be used to register the vehicle in the U.S., not the body number. Good luck with your research.
|
|
| DocuResearcher | -- 11-22-2021 @ 3:28 PM |
|
Ai... That was disappointing. The clerks back in 1937 must have done a bad job. "Unders. nr." translates to frame number. They must have been to lazy to check for the right number. Or perhaps the Embassy just provided the number, without Norwegian officials checking it? We will never know. But it is stil a way to identify the right car - if it stil exist, and if I can find it. Could it be that the Ford factory has records that ties the Chassis number to the frame number? This message was edited by DocuResearcher on 11-22-21 @ 3:32 PM
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 11-23-2021 @ 6:00 AM |
|
Zeke3 is correct! I also believe the numbers are from the "Body Tag" that were attached to the engine side of the firewall. Ford supplied panels to body manufactures such as Murry and Briggs they assembled the body of open Ford cars in 1937. The body Mfg. attached their tag to the body for identification. The completed body were shipped back to Ford where they were assembled to frames with engines. Over time, body tags may have been removed since they can interfere with new paint. That practice should not happen today. The 1787 is unique to the car your looking for. The 78 also indicated the original engine was considered 85HP. The Convertible Sedan in the USA is not considered a Cabriolet. If you can get the magazines to publish your story with the complete body tag number as you have done here, there is a very remote chance the car can be found. I wish you the best of luck.
|
|
| DocuResearcher | -- 11-23-2021 @ 8:26 AM |
|
Thanks! Even if there only is a slim chance of finding the car, we have to try. I have to contact Ford, or the body manufacture companys, if they still exist, to see if they have archives on what chassis number was paired with what frame number. https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-resources/popular-topics/production-records In 1937 it was only made 4,378 Convertible Sedans, so every existing one is could easily be it. Was this model the most expensive one of the Ford V8s that year? This message was edited by DocuResearcher on 11-23-21 @ 8:54 AM
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=15300 |