| Ramblin Reck | -- 07-14-2021 @ 5:01 AM |
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I am new to the forum. I am now the proud owner of a 1939 Ford Deluxe Vert with Rumble Seat. It runs but doesn't stop well so I am replacing all of the brake system from the master cylinder to the wheel cylinders. Parts are on the way. If that doesn't fix it, I will look then at the shoes and drums. But my question is about the electrical system on my Pride and Joy. I used a volt meter to see what voltage the battery reads and it says 12 Volts. So I assume that all operating systems that use electrical current are 12 volt: ie the starter, alternator, lights, windshield wiper, etc. Hope I am correct in that assumption. I was told that the flat head engine in my car is not the original but a 1946 or 1947 engine. Could that account for the change to a 12 volt system? I was under the assumption that the original 1939 Ford was a six volt system. I guess you could say I was mildly shocked (pun intended) when I saw the positive terminal lead bolted to the fire wall! My first experience with Henry's take on electrical matters. ******I learned from the original long term owner of this vehicle that he did change from 6 volt to 12 volt. Now we move on to the braking system. Thanks for everyone's help and advice. I have learned some important information in my first week of being an Early V8 owner. ******* This message was edited by Ramblin Reck on 7-17-21 @ 7:16 AM
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| Kens 36 | -- 07-14-2021 @ 7:08 AM |
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Congratulations on your "new" car and welcome to the forum! Starting with the brakes is not a bad idea. Properly set up, the original braking system should stop your car just fine. All Early Ford V-8's were 6-volt, positive ground. This continued through 1955, so a prior owner of your car must have had a reason to change. Once you get your car to stop, going through the entire electrical system is a good next step. Be especially aware of the condition of the wiring. Good luck! Ken
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| trjford8 | -- 07-14-2021 @ 7:39 AM |
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Many people go to the 12 volt system due to failing to bring the 6 volt system up to stock standards. Failure to use the proper size battery cables and properly grounding the system causes most of the problems. Next is making sure the charging system is up to the job of keeping the battery in good shape. Definitely fix the brakes first and then move to the electrical. I might also suggest that you purchase the V-8 Club's 38-39 book as it will help you with facts and figures of your new purchase. In addition join the Early Ford V-8 Club if you haven't already. The bi-monthly magazine, the V-8 Times, is well worth the price of admission. You also get a roster of members, some of who may live near you and can give you some great advice. Welcome to the forum
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| therunwaybehind | -- 07-14-2021 @ 11:12 AM |
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The generator output on this system needs to be about 13.2 volts to charge the battery where each cell voltage at full charge is 2.2 volts. The cell resistance in discharge takes that down more and more as the battery ages. The reason why the different views of ground is that electrons that flow in the wires were discovered to have a negative charge and the ions in the sulphuric acid that migrate between the plates have positive charges.
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| CharlieStephens | -- 07-14-2021 @ 11:46 AM |
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Now is the time to look at the shoes and drums when everything is apart. If the shoes have oil or grease on them replace them. Be sure to have the new ones arced to match the drums. Call the local chapter of the club and see who does it in your area, only a few shops do it anymore but it is an important step. If the drums have grooves in them have them turned. Have them measured. If they are over 12.060 replace them. If the car has has been together and running for a while you are probably ok with the electrical. If it just went together and has never been run you might have some knowledgeable on the electrical look at it. It is amazing how bad some of the conversions are. The one thing that scares me, although it will work, is the fact that it is positive ground. Most good electrical people go to negative so modern electronics can be used in the car. Ford went to 12 volts in the mid sixties so the engine change didn't drive the change. Welcome to the forum and how about posting some pictures? Charlie Stephens
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| woodiewagon46 | -- 07-14-2021 @ 12:33 PM |
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Forgive me for questioning you, but why wouldn't you check the shoes and drum's first? You are replacing everything but the two things that are designed to wear out and easily serviced.
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| 42wagon | -- 07-14-2021 @ 2:01 PM |
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I'm not sure what you mean by "the car doesn't stop well". Don't expect that car to stop the way a modern car with power brakes does. I hope you aren't disappointed after doing all that work. As for the electrical system you should be able to tell whether the battery is 6 volt or 12 volt. 12 volt systems are negative ground. Not sure what happens if you hook it up backwards. And I also wonder what the other major electrical components are.
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| JayChicago | -- 07-14-2021 @ 2:19 PM |
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Another thought for what its worth: You have an unusual 12 volt positive ground. Usually (but not always) when an old car is converted to 12 volt it is also converted to the modern standard of negative ground. Do you know the seller, and the recent history of the car? Could it still be a 6 volt system? Could someone have put a handy 12 volt battery in there to complete the sale / get the car gone? I agree with the advice above that you should join your local chapter of the club, and get some experienced guys to help you figure out what you have, and where you need to start working.
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| sarahcecelia | -- 07-14-2021 @ 6:08 PM |
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I did many brake jobs" back in the day" and that is an "Old Wives Tale" and a "money maker," that brake shoes that have grease or brake fluid on them need to be replaced. I just washed them with gasoline, sanded any glaze on them off , and they worked like new! I did it on customers cars at the dealership that I worked for, and never got a "Come back!" The grease or brake fluid won't penetrate those hard linings, it's only on the surface! Regards, Steve Lee
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| Ramblin Reck | -- 07-15-2021 @ 6:52 AM |
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The master cylinder is easy to get to and I have a younger friend who knows how to bleed brakes. We filled the master cylinder and he opened the bleed screw on the starboard rear wheel while I pumped the brakes. Not necessary to jack up the car. Nothing came out of the bleed screw so we assume that the lines have collapsed from extremely long periods of sitting idle in a garage somewhere. The car will stop so we must be getting brake fluid to the front wheels. The brakes are real squishy if that 's a word. The fluid in the master cylinder was dark and there were pieces of matter (looked like cork?) floating up in the master cylinder. So there you have my deductive reasoning. No need to apologize. The only dumb question is the one that is not asked. Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. I really do appreciate it and need all the help I can get. I have paid my dues to the Early V8 club and look forward to my new hobby. And I will get some pictures posted.
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| TomO | -- 07-15-2021 @ 7:47 AM |
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Congratulations on your new car. The 39 Convertible is a very nice car to own and yours looks very nice. The condition of the brake fluid is a good indicator of the condition of the hydraulic system, so IMHO you are on the right track. You will need the special hub puller for Ford rear hubs. This tool clamps on the center of the hub and frees up the hub so you can get at the rear brakes. Here is one source for the puller: http://www.vintageprecision.com/products/hub_pullers/index.html You also must make sure that the brake shoe adjustment cams are turned to fully retract the brake shoes. Once you have the drums off, you should inspect the bottom of the axle housings for wear. The axle housings serve as the inner race for the rear bearings. If the surface is worn excessively, you will have to disassemble the rear end and have sleeves installed on the housing. I hope that you have ordered new grease seals, because you should re-pack the wheel bearings using Sta lube SL 3131 grease. It is available fro Amazon and local parts houses. https://smile.amazon.com/Sta-Lube-SL3131-Heavy-Bearing-Grease/dp/B000CPJMYI/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=crc+heavy+duty+drum+brake+wheel+bearing+grease&qid=1626360323&sr=8-4 Post a photo of your battery. It will make it easier to identify it. Your car appears to have the original type bulb headlamps. Check the bulb to see if it is 12 volts. If it is, your car has been converted to 12 volts. Search the internet for the 12 volt conversion instructions and then check your car to make sure that all bulbs, generator, voltage regulator and a voltage reducer for the instrument have been installed. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 7-15-21 @ 7:56 AM
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