| oatycorb | -- 11-01-2020 @ 3:24 PM |
|
Good evening everyone, I have a couple questions about the safety wire used to secure various nuts and bolts on these old cars. The oldest engine I ever built was a 1959 850cc Austin Mini engine so this 30's stuff is all new to me. Anyway, I had just finished installing my freshly rebuilt transmission and was in the midst of a celebratory beverage when I realized I had forgotten to safety wire the 6 bolts that secure the rear trans mount/bearing retainer to the back of the tranny. I used new lock washers on the bolts. So my question is how crucial is it to have that safety wire on those bolts? I can't imagine they'd come loose but then what the h*ll do I know. I got the whole clamsh*ll assembly at the back of the trans all sealed up tight and am inclined to leave it alone but if this is a bad idea then I'd welcome your opinion. Incidentally, the motor is not in the car. Secondly, I installed the crank in my 59ab block today. Torqued all the main cap nuts to 85 ft. lbs. When I took this motor apart the main cap nuts were secured by cotter pins. With the nuts torqued to spec only 1 of the nuts had it's slot even close to lining up with the hole in the stud. I'd have to either loosen or tighten the nuts so much to get the rest of the nut's slots to line up that I'm concerned they'll end up being either too tight or too loose. So here again, I'm wondering if the main cap nuts have ever been known to loosen up without being secured by pins or wires. I know that's the way Ford built them and I would think there's a reason for that but I was curious if bad things really do happen if you don't safety wire this stuff. Any advice is hugely appreciated, thanks!!
|
|
| Barney | -- 11-01-2020 @ 4:02 PM |
|
Mr. Tycorb, Here's my 2-cent's worth, and it's probably not worth that much: I believe leaving the tranny bolts as is very acceptable. If they do become loosened (very unlikely), you'll more than likely have ample warning and can tighten them at your leisure. However, you won't have that luxury if your main bearing bolts become loose. You'll probably trash your engine before you can say 'Jack Rabbit.' I would definitely safety wires those puppies. Barney
|
|
| kubes40 | -- 11-01-2020 @ 4:06 PM |
|
I'm from the camp that if Henry spent an extra .03¢ per car to install that wire, there was good reason to do so. Why take the chance at not installing the wire? The man caps... I'd never seen cotter pins there although I couldn't say if that was "factory" or not - just that I'd never seen it. I have seen a lot of these engines (main caps) tied off with safety wire. When I rebuild these engines I replace the original slotted nuts with locking nuts. Do it once, do it correctly... Mike "Kube" Kubarth This message was edited by kubes40 on 11-1-20 @ 4:10 PM
|
|
| agriffey | -- 11-01-2020 @ 6:29 PM |
|
On my own engines I do not use safety wire or cotter pins or lock nuts. On other people’s stuff I do use wire, etc. if there is a hole to put it in. Today I put together a 302 engine from a ‘91 Pickup. When I took it apart it had no locking wire, no cotters, no lock nuts and no loc-tight. No washers on the rod nuts. So it went back together it went without any of that stuff, except.......I did use blue lock -tight on the cam bolt and crankshaft pulley bolt. Really now. Do you know of a late model car that the nuts fell off from the rods or main caps? Loc- tite My iPad doesn’t like that word. I’ve seen torque converter bolts come loose but I don’t know if somebody had the bolts out recently.
|
|
| oatycorb | -- 11-02-2020 @ 4:12 AM |
|
Thanks for all the advice, you guys are awesome. I have a roll of "mechanics wire" that is .044" in diameter, I'll use that to ensure the main cap nuts stay where they're supposed to.
|
|
| 1931 Flamingo | -- 11-02-2020 @ 5:53 AM |
|
To get holes to line up after torquing, remove the nuts and sand the flat surface, trial and error. Or try on a different stud. Paul in CT
|
|
| 51504bat | -- 11-02-2020 @ 7:16 AM |
|
Seems to me if you are going to use safety wire you should use safety wire not mechanics wire. Its available from a variety of industrial supply sources or since its used in aircraft that would be another source of the wire. You can even get it delivered to your door from Amazon. As my grandfather used to say, "if you can't do it right the first time, when will you find time to do it over the right way?" JMO ______________ No signature
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 11-02-2020 @ 9:27 AM |
|
As an octogenarian, yes, I've seen a few loose nuts in my day. Alan
|
|
| oatycorb | -- 11-02-2020 @ 2:09 PM |
|
I wired the main cap nuts this afternoon using the wire that I have. Incidentally, I don't know that it's not safety wire that I have. I've had it for over 30 years and it's pretty heavy duty stuff, can't even remember where it came from. Twisted all the strands down nice and tight, I'm inclined to consider the job finished. Out of curiosity tho, what's the difference between "safety wire" and "mechanic's wire"?
|
|
| Jacques1960 | -- 11-02-2020 @ 2:51 PM |
|
Safety wire is always stainless steel, used, for example, on aircraft nuts and for marine applications, like mousing shackles. Mechanics wire is plain steel, malleable and typically greased to prevent rust.
|
|
| Barney | -- 11-02-2020 @ 5:25 PM |
|
Hi RAK, If you're not sure what it is, and can't determine by it's looks, perform this basic test: By bending mechanics' wire back and forth a few times, you'll find it'll break as most metals will. But attempting to break (aircraft) safety wire will require much more effort, maybe even several minutes to break it. I'm guessing you may even quit the task before you're successful. Barney
|
|
| oatycorb | -- 11-03-2020 @ 4:11 AM |
|
Thanks Barney, I'll do the bending test today, I tend to think it is safety wire that I have but if it isn't I'll just buy some and rewire the nuts again. And thanks again to everyone who offered advice, it's appreciated more than you know.
|
|
| 1931 Flamingo | -- 11-03-2020 @ 6:17 AM |
|
Personally I wouldn't worry about which wire to use, torque the bolts, wire doesn't even need to be twisted as long as it's putting a "tighten" pull on the bolt. JMO Paul in CT former PWA engine mechanic, PWA overhaul shop
|
|
| 3w2 | -- 11-03-2020 @ 9:46 AM |
|
You may have erred by using lock washers on the six bolts that thread into the transmission case. Assuming that you used the original bolts look inside the transmission case and see if the threaded ends of your bolts end about flush with the inside surface of the transmission case. If they are not flush but recessed back in the case then the bolts that you have were not intended to be used with lock washers and obviously the safety wire through the holes in the heads takes on a much higher priority. You also have a less secure attachment as fewer threads are seated than was the design intent.
|
|
| oatycorb | -- 11-04-2020 @ 10:08 AM |
|
There were old original looking lock washers on the 6 rear mount bolts when I took it apart so I just assumed they're supposed to be there. The shift tower is already bolted on and sealed but I might pull it back off just to check this, thanks for the advice.
|
|
| agriffey | -- 11-04-2020 @ 1:03 PM |
|
Oh my .......I must take time off today to put new studs and lug bolts in the wheels of my cars so I can safety wire them. I sure wouldn’t want a wheel to fall off!
|
|
| agriffey | -- 11-04-2020 @ 1:10 PM |
|
Actually I have had those bolts come loose that hold the closed driveshaft tube to the rear of the transmission, in fact yeasterday when I had the floor board out of a ‘46 Mercury I noticed one of the bottom bolts is missing. That area gets a lot of jerking so I sure would wire them.
|
|
| oatycorb | -- 11-04-2020 @ 3:30 PM |
|
After checking my old Ford parts book and looking at exploded diagrams on Mac Van Pelt's website it appears that those 6 bolts securing the rear bearing retainer to the trans case are indeed supposed to have lock washers, they are part #34807-S2. So no worries there. On the clamsh*ll assembly that secures the torque tube to the back of the trans I snugged the bolts down REALLY tight and secured them with cotter pins, I figured these bolts would be subject to some amount of stress. And after all this safety wire discussion it turns out that what I had wired my main cap nuts with was not proper safety wire. I have an industrial supply warehouse near me that serves 3 local airports and picked up a roll of .051" stainless steel lock wire today, so I'll rewire the main cap nuts with this just for piece of mind if nothing else. And again thanks to all of you who took the time to offer advice, I hugely appreciate it.
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=14290 |