| Jacques1960 | -- 09-01-2020 @ 7:29 AM |
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I understand that canvas may be a correct material for the second row spare tire cover. If so, I’d appreciate guidance regarding color and detail. Thank you
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| kubes40 | -- 09-01-2020 @ 11:14 AM |
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I'm waiting with curiosity for the experts to weigh in on your query. I know that in '39, the cover was "leatherette"... kind of similar to a modern vinyl. There was a stainless bead at both the outer diameter as well as the inner. Those beads are pretty much non-existent now. I've attached a photo of the '39 I'd restored. Is your '38 similar? Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-01-2020 @ 11:49 AM |
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Exactly !
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-01-2020 @ 11:50 AM |
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Those beads look like the ultimate unobtanium
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-01-2020 @ 2:50 PM |
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The vinyl aftermarket spare covers with the Ford logo do not cut it
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| woodiewagon46 | -- 09-02-2020 @ 6:03 AM |
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In the book Famous Ford Woodies, there are two pictures of the spare tire covers for both the 1938 and 1939 on page 93. The '38 has a description of, "A simple canvas- type cover came standard". The description of the '39 is described as "An artificial leather-type spare tire cover, with stainless ring came standard on the more expensive 1939 Deluxe models". It's kind of confusing but if your car is a Deluxe, I would tend to think the one with the stainless ring would be the one you want. An extremely talented upholstery shop might be able to fabricate something close, using simulated chrome fender welting in place of the stainless, but as far as locating an original stainless steel ring, that might be tough.
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-02-2020 @ 10:21 AM |
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Thank you; will focus on the leatherette option and noodle on the chrome
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| woodiewagon46 | -- 09-02-2020 @ 11:13 AM |
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Jaques, as kubes points out, the cover with the stainless trim is "unobtanium". I have been to many Woodie, only shows such as Wavequest, Woodies on the Wharf etc. and have looked at thousands of Woodies and never saw the cover with the stainless trim. Picture someone with a flat tire in the middle of the night, trying to remove the cover without bending the stainless trim. My '46 uses a steel spare tire cover and even those were left on the side of the road or simply discarded after changing a tire, but that's the reason they are so rare. I doubt that any judges even know what was the correct cover, just hope kubes doesn't judge your car.
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| 39 Ken | -- 09-02-2020 @ 11:50 AM |
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""In the book Famous Ford Woodies, there are two pictures of the spare tire covers for both the 1938 and 1939 on page 93. The '38 has a description of, "A simple canvas- type cover came standard". "" Maybe I'm reading this quote differently, or maybe I'm not understanding what you all have posted. It appears to me that the canvas spare tire cover was standard for the 1938 Ford station wagon; ie, the only spare tire cover for the wagon was made with simple canvas. Nothing else was provided by Ford. A number of years ago, a friend of mine restored his Dad's 1938 Ford station wagon.It's original color was Wren Tan and it's original spare tire cover was made of a khaki color canvas material. Ken This message was edited by 39 Ken on 9-2-20 @ 12:06 PM
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| kubes40 | -- 09-02-2020 @ 12:26 PM |
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39Ken, I kind of understood what was quoted the same way you did. That in '38, the covers were canvas. My previous post did mention that I was not certain what a '38 was. I hope I was not responsible for confusing this matter. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| woodiewagon46 | -- 09-02-2020 @ 12:45 PM |
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That's why in my post, I also said it was kind of confusing because in 1938 the Station Wagon did use the DeLuxe front end. They could have been more specific in the wording in the book.
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-02-2020 @ 1:04 PM |
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So if unadorned canvas is the practical option for 1938, would the color key to the seating surfaces or body color ? Thank you
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| kubes40 | -- 09-02-2020 @ 3:35 PM |
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Most likely the covers were all the same regardless of body color. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-03-2020 @ 5:37 AM |
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Tan ?
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-03-2020 @ 9:26 AM |
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Albrights Supply offers a clear plastic welting with a metal wire encapsulated in the bead; will order some for a mock up
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| kubes40 | -- 09-03-2020 @ 10:22 AM |
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I think you need to wait for a wagon expert to weigh in here. Tan? Perhaps. Canvas? Perhaps. So far you're getting a bunch of guesses... some educated, some, well, not so much. I have to believe someone KNOWS with authority what was correct. It appears you have a rather nice car... I might suggest you get the pro advice and "do it right" the first time. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-03-2020 @ 12:17 PM |
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I agree; patience it is
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| TomO | -- 09-04-2020 @ 8:16 AM |
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I have no idea of what is correct for your 38 Station Wagon ,but I wonder if you have put the question to the Club's 38 Adviser, Gary Mallast? He has extensive knowledge about the 1938 cars. Mike Nickels is another good contact for station wagons. Tom
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| kubes40 | -- 09-04-2020 @ 8:50 AM |
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If you can get hold of Mike, that would be my "go to" for this info. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-04-2020 @ 3:10 PM |
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Thank you; sent a message to Gary via LinkedIn and will call Mike next week. Really appreciate the guidance.
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| 39 Ken | -- 09-05-2020 @ 4:38 AM |
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Kube, No, you didn't cause my confusion. It was the quote from the book, Famous Ford Woodies. No reflection on woodiewagon either. Being a budding author yourself, you can appreciate the fact that books and information should be written for the reader, not the writer. I tried to get in touch with the guy I referenced earlier that restored his Dad's '38 Ford station wagon. Unfortunately, he has passed and the car is nowhere to be found. Ken
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-24-2020 @ 4:08 PM |
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Had a very nice conversation with Mike Nickels but he could not clearly recall having seen the real McCoy. Am going to have one made up using tan canvas with a cotton draw string and without metal welting / piping. This will be a “full” cover without a rear-facing center opening; my thinking is that the rim and mounting hardware of the spare would have been just as likely to dirty a passenger’s clothing as the tire rubber itself.
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| kubes40 | -- 09-24-2020 @ 4:25 PM |
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Okay, I have to ask... why the great concern with what was correct when clearly, you are making a cover that will be vastly different than "correct"? I'm just curious. Mike "Kube" Kubarth This message was edited by kubes40 on 9-24-20 @ 4:27 PM
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-24-2020 @ 7:13 PM |
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Good question: absent a definitive example on what is (actually) correct, I have to make some assumptions regarding material, design, etc. VERY open to suggestions as I would like to get it right
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| kubes40 | -- 09-25-2020 @ 5:24 AM |
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Have you attempted to contact the Benson Ford Research Center? VERY helpful folks. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| TomO | -- 09-25-2020 @ 7:50 AM |
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The parts catalog shows only one spare tire cover for the 38 Station wagon P/N 81A-1395. You can see if the Research center has a copy of the engineering drawings for that P/N and then get a copy of it. It should have the color and other specifications. As a SWAG, I would say the the canvas was the "drab" color used for the convertible top. I believe that 1940 was the first year for Standard and DeLuxe model station wagons. Tom
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-25-2020 @ 10:00 AM |
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Tom and Mike, Thank you; I’ve contacted Benson Center about the spare tire cover specs as well as the proper color for the rear window frame (open question from another thread of mine - black per below “original” example or keyed to body color ?). The list is slowly getting shorter , but these are the remaining “big” questions. Mike, I’ve shared your photo with the museum . Best, Jamie
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| kubes40 | -- 09-25-2020 @ 10:12 AM |
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I wish I could be of more help to you. As you've no doubt discovered, wagon documentation is difficult to come by. It took me LONG hours to find answers to my questions when restoring the '39 deluxe. On the '39, the rear frame is body color. Not that (unfortunately) that helps you. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| woodiewagon46 | -- 09-25-2020 @ 5:38 PM |
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Jacques, even if you find out the correct "canvas" type material, because of modern manufacturing machinery, you may never find an exact copy. Couple that with some terms that Ford used that mean the same thing such as, "simulated leather", "artificial leather" and "leatherette". Unless you can get an original, who can even guess what the original material was.
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-26-2020 @ 5:10 AM |
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Very good point; “canvas” today means Sunbrella more often than not and not actual cotton.
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-29-2020 @ 7:47 AM |
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The Benson Center does have a drawing; will go ahead and order to see if it’s a match for the 38
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| kubes40 | -- 09-29-2020 @ 10:20 AM |
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I am eager to see what you find out. thanks! Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-29-2020 @ 3:33 PM |
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You’ll be the first to know; part number is correct, but drawing is dated 1946, which I don’t understand
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| kubes40 | -- 09-29-2020 @ 4:07 PM |
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If the part number does in fact prove to be correct, then the later date could indicate one of a number of different scenarios. Each time a change occurred to a part, there was supposed to be a record of it. The 1946 date may simply be the date the part went obsolete. IE no longer supplied for service. There should be a record of that. I doubt at that date Ford was making changes to the design. However, that remains a possibility, albeit a slight one at best. When you get the drawing (copy) you'll want to see the first design released for production. Subsequent changes, if any, are important if they occurred during the model year and you are attempting to create a part that coincides with the approximate build date of your car. Changes made to the part after the model year happened with some frequency. Keep in mind that service parts were just that - service parts. Fit and function were the only things that mattered. Matching the originally installed part was very often down the list of priorities. If Dave Rehor sees this post, he'll certainly be much better able to explain the possible variables. Mike "Kube" Kubarth This message was edited by kubes40 on 9-29-20 @ 4:08 PM
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| Jacques1960 | -- 09-30-2020 @ 5:39 PM |
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Thank you; will report back on drawing details. Fingers crossed.
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| Jacques1960 | -- 10-01-2020 @ 11:58 AM |
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While awaiting drawings from Benson, I received Lorin Sorensin’s book, “Famous Ford Woodies”. Mike, note second inner stainless ring shown on 39 deluxe cover below. Stitching pattern (4 panel) on 38 design is something I had not imagined
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| Jacques1960 | -- 10-01-2020 @ 12:01 PM |
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Deleted This message was edited by Jacques1960 on 10-1-20 @ 12:02 PM
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| Jacques1960 | -- 10-02-2020 @ 5:28 AM |
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I asked my upholsterer why the 4 panel construction would have been used on the “simple canvas cover” in 1938 - the answer was pure Henry Ford, “less wasted material”.
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| 39 Ken | -- 10-02-2020 @ 5:39 AM |
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The picture showing the spare tire cover for 1938 is exactly like the one I mentioned earlier in this thread. Ken
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| Jacques1960 | -- 10-02-2020 @ 7:08 AM |
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It was great to see an actual picture - “simple” indeed. We’re mocking it up using the four panel design, pending receipt of the Benson drawing next week. I really appreciate everyone’s help as I chase the details. That Sorinson book is wonderful
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| Jacques1960 | -- 10-09-2020 @ 9:58 AM |
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Design drawing attached for those interested in details. Thanks to the Benson Center at Ford Museum.
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| kubes40 | -- 10-09-2020 @ 4:13 PM |
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I have found this entire thread very interesting. I must applaud you in your efforts to do things correctly -a rare commodity these days. Thank YOU! Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| Jacques1960 | -- 10-11-2020 @ 5:38 AM |
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You set a high bar for the rest of us captain !
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| Jacques1960 | -- 12-04-2020 @ 11:16 AM |
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“Simple canvas cover” as replicated
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| ducano | -- 03-15-2023 @ 6:14 PM |
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I have used this tire cover from Camco, these are made of nice and heavyweight vinyl with a flannel-type backing. They’re holding up nice and protecting our camper’s tires. This message was edited by ducano on 3-23-23 @ 9:14 PM
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