| Ketronj281989 | -- 08-11-2020 @ 10:23 AM |
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My 1936 car reference book states between an operating range of 100-30 F the viscosity number should be SAE40. I want to stick with stock lubricants and wanted to ask: What is the best brand SAE 40 on the market right now for these early V-8's? To my knowledge, my engine has never been rebuilt or taken apart. Also, I would imagine this would be ND oil (non detergent) correct? Don't think they had detergent oil back then? Thanks for the help, Jon
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| ken ct. | -- 08-11-2020 @ 11:25 AM |
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Why would you want to use 80 yr. old tecnolagy. Use Valvoline 20-50 detergent oil, OMO ken ct
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| 1934 Ford | -- 08-11-2020 @ 11:51 AM |
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20-50 detergent oil is good advice. Any modern 20-50 detergent oil is better than anyting they had in the 30"s. It's thin enough to start easily in cold weather and thick enough to leak less and drip smaller puddles, all while doing a better job of lubrication. 1934 Ford's since 1972 This message was edited by 1934 Ford on 8-15-20 @ 9:58 AM
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| Ketronj281989 | -- 08-11-2020 @ 3:47 PM |
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Would a detergent multi-grade oil be better for an older engine rated for a non-detergent mono-grade oil? Forgive me, I am young and still very new with old motors. I don't know what kind of oil has been in this 1936 V8 engine prior to my purchase and fear a build-up of sludge is currently present. This motor has never been taken apart, has never had it's oil pan off. I thought it would be best to stick with the non-detergent mono-grade oil until I am able to drop the pan and clean out the sludge this coming winter. From what I have read dropping the pan on a 1935-1936 year car is quite a job and sounds very time consuming, a good winter project I have on schedule for this winter season. If I were to go to a detergent multi-grade oil now before inspecting the inside of the pan, could this potentially cause the sludge to dislodge (due to the detergent properties) and clog the engine? Further fears arise as this engine does not have an oil filter installed. I would think running a multi-grade oil with this current unknown could possibly thin the oil and dislodge or spread the sludge throughout the engine? Jon
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| carcrazy | -- 08-11-2020 @ 9:55 PM |
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One thing you can try to get the sludge and crud out of an old engine is to drain out the old oil. Fill the engine up to the full mark on the dipstick with kerosene and run the engine for five minutes or until the oil pressure gauge just goes down to zero. Turn off the engine and drain out the kerosene. Fill the engine with fresh oil. This is a trick a couple of old tractor mechanics told me about. I have never tried it. Use this tip at your own risk. You might not want to use an oil with a viscosity of less than SAE 30 as the engine will leak more oil. If you use a straight SAE 30 Detergent oil with an API rating of SN or later, use a cam break-in additive to protect your camshaft lobes (including the one for the fuel pump) and the tappets.
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| mfirth | -- 08-12-2020 @ 4:42 AM |
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I did the kerosene thing back in the 60s blending 1 qt of 20 wt in the mix. It surely drained out BLACK, but i don't think it helped that much. Be very alert to engine temp. & don't wait for zero oil pressure.
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| 51504bat | -- 08-12-2020 @ 7:25 AM |
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Non-detergent motor oil isn't available in California, don't know about other states. I've run 20/50 detergent in every flathead I've owned both old tired ones and the current newly rebuilt 8ba in my '39 p/u. ______________ No signature
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| TomO | -- 08-12-2020 @ 7:28 AM |
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The detergents in the modern oils usually do not loosen chunks of sludge that will clog the oil passages in a flathead. Most oils today have some detergents, so finding an oil without them would be difficult. 20W-40 oil is like cold 20W oil when cold and like 40 oil when the engine is at operating temp. Sludge buildup occurs when the engine is not operated long enough to evaporate the water from the unburned fuel. Tom
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| JayChicago | -- 08-12-2020 @ 8:46 AM |
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Jon When I got my ‘40 I had the same concern as you regarding oil and dislodging of sludge. (original engine, previous owner had put only 305 miles on the odometer in 27 years of ownership) I followed TomO’s and others’ advise to just start using modern oil. There were no problems.
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| kirkstad | -- 08-12-2020 @ 12:59 PM |
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Jon. I have been using valvoline SAE 40 in my 36 I get from Napa, but it is a detergent oil. I have since switched to Valvoline 20w-50 because of the recommendation of other club members. I believe TomO is correct because when I removed my pan to replace my oil pump with a later helical gear pump, there was a fair amount of sludge present. My engine has never been rebuilt,it is a little tired, but suits me fine. For peace of mind you should consider removing the pan at some point to clean it out, along with the oil pump pick up screen.I have the 32-36 engine and chassis book and it goes into great detail on removing the pan. I see Dennis Carpenter and C&G still list it under (V-13),Or I would be glad to mail you a copy of the page. It would be a good winter project. Frank
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| Ketronj281989 | -- 08-13-2020 @ 4:03 AM |
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I really appreciate all of your replies, everyone! So to sum up the oil question, please correct me if I am wrong: It would be wise to use a multi-grade oil due to the detergents and better lubricating properties as well as the large temperature range benefit within this type of oil. A multi-grade oil such as 20W-50 allows for operation between 0 degrees F to above 90 degrees F. Essentially a 20W oil upon start up, moving to a 50W once the engine is at operating temperature? What if the temperature stays around 65 degrees F, would I go with a 20W-30?? What about a Zinc additive? It is my understanding this additive was not added to oil until the 1940's. Do our Ford V8 pre-war engines need Zinc? (I was looking at the brand "Classic Car Motor Oil". They talk about pre-war cars and the benefit of zinc and how it could provide extra protection and lubrication properties to these early engines.) I will be removing the pan this winter, wow what a job according to the service book! This will be a first for me. Frank, thanks for your suggestions as well as the offer on the copy of the manual page. I have the entire V-13 manual. I did not think to clean the oil pump pick-up screen, great suggestion. Will be sure to tend to this item upon pan removal. Jon
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| TomO | -- 08-13-2020 @ 7:37 AM |
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IMHO the ZDDP removal does not affect any engines. In every worn camshaft case that I have found the wear occurred in the the first 5,00 miles after a new or reground camshaft was installed. Most of the cases were within the first 1,000 miles. I suspect that the supplier did not correctly harden the camshaft and wanted to find someone or something else to blame it on. In the 1950's high performance camshafts were wearing out in 4,000 - 10,000 miles. ZDDP was a good, inexpensive anti-wear additive and increasing the amount served to limit the wear. When the oil companies were told to limit the amount, because it damaged catalytic converters, they developed and added more expensive anti-wear additive and the engine manufacturers started using roller tappets because the new engines put more stress on the camshafts. The Ford V-8 valve spring tension is much less than the springs used in the modern engines, so there is less stress on the camshaft and the current witches brew of additives will protect your engine much better than the oil that was sold in 1936. The new problem is the new ratings on the oil. The old "s*" ratings will disappear and will be replaced with GL* ratings. The 10W30 GL6A should be backward compatible, but the GL6B oils will not be backward compatible. Here is a link to the Chevron website that explains their viewpoint on the change. https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en_us/home/learning/about-our-brands/havoline/ilsac-gf-6.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpNfP8K6Y6wIVYgnnCh0nwg6HEAAYASAAEgLekfD_BwE&mkwid=sfCBstIyC_366915025566_api%20sn%20oil_p_c&mtid=744skq56394&slid=&product_id= Here is a link to the API website with their opinion. https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/eolcs-categories-and-classifications/latest-oil-categories My opinion is that in the near future you should be OK with the 10W 30 API SN GL6A oil, which has slightly better ant-wear additive than API SM. The API GL6B is too thin to use in our cars. I don't know if there are going to be 20W 40 or 20W 50 oils with these ratings or if the major oil companies will still be making those oil viscosities. Here is a link that explains the API ratings up to SM. https://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_quality_ratings.htm Tom
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| therunwaybehind | -- 08-13-2020 @ 11:35 AM |
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What do you mean by kerosene? Do you mean real K-1 kerosene as sold at pumps for stoves and lighting or do you mean the more common fuel oil used for heating and that has an oily feel? They smell very different.
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| Ketronj281989 | -- 08-14-2020 @ 3:37 AM |
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Tom, Thanks for info. Great stuff, really appreciate the detailed response. I have now decided to run a multi-weight oil once I drop the pan this winter. After the pan has been serviced I will continue to run a multi-weight oil as long as I own and operate, and service the car thru my lifetime. One other question, if I were to use a 15W-40 would this be fine? Jon
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| carcrazy | -- 08-14-2020 @ 11:16 AM |
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If you use oils of less than SAE 30 weight, they will leak out of the engine more readily. Note that multi-grade motor oils are simply oils of the lower viscosity weight with viscosity index improvers added to prevent them from thinning out at higher temperatures.
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| mfirth | -- 08-14-2020 @ 1:59 PM |
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I ran 15-40 Rotella in an 8ba & other guys still do. It should be fine in your engine too.
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| Ketronj281989 | -- 08-17-2020 @ 5:28 AM |
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carcrazy, Thank you for your comments. You bring up some great points to consider when shopping for an quality oil to use. I have been thinking about your reply and understand exactly what you are saying. Thanks, Jon
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| Ketronj281989 | -- 08-17-2020 @ 5:31 AM |
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mfirth, I have heard of early car owners using Rotella due to it's great properties. Thank you for your comment regarding. Jon
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| TomO | -- 08-17-2020 @ 7:27 AM |
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Carcrazy's comment could have been correct 30 years ago, but that changed with the engine requirements of the 1990 and later engines. The oil today is chemically engineered at the molecular level to provide a good oil film under all heat conditions. The important viscosity number is the number for operating temperatures, the cold number is important for starting conditions. When your Reference Book was printed, oil was pumped out of the ground and the separated by viscosity and then sold to be used in the cars. Things began to change dramatically after WWII when automakers wanted their engines to be more reliable and require less service, due to customer demands. Computer programs were written to control daily operations at the refinery and by the 1970's the refineries were being controlled by computers. The chemical engineers then had more time to investigate better ways to refine the oil and what kind of additives to add to improve the oil as it was being refined. Tom
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| OLDTMR | -- 08-17-2020 @ 9:27 AM |
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Just changed the oil and filter on my 40 using Valvoline Premium Blue, 15/40 Good stuff !
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