Someone tell the editors of the V-8 Times that there is no such thing as a 1938 Ford Business Coupe.
On page 59 of the Jan/Feb 2020 issue of the V-8 Times, Jim Parsons' beautiful 1938 Ford DeLuxe Coupe is described as a 1938 "Business Coupe".
The EFV-8 C/A reference book The 1938-1939 Ford Book indicates that there were three coupe models offered in 1938:
Coupe
De Luxe Coupe
Club Coupe
It is no wonder that this misinformation is constantly perpetuated--- we can't even get it right in our own magazine.
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Again, our Club reference books have the correct models listed.
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Have been a big fan for years and love reading your posts.
That being said, the 1940 Ford Business Coupe is not a one seat coupe--it is a bench seat coupe with two jump seats in the back. No "Sedan Coupes" in 37-38-39-40 to distinguish from. Club Coupes. The Sedan Coupes came later.
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This message was edited by TonyM on 2-5-20 @ 1:13 PM
How about my brother's car?
1941 Buick Series 90 Limited Model 91 Six Passenger Touring Sedan
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I have witnessed perhaps 99% of '40 COUPE owners (parcel shelf type) call their cars Business coupes. I had become tired of attempting to educate those folks a long time ago.
At least in 1940, Ford did in fact make a business coupe. It's the one with the auxiliary jump seats.
You have re-educated more folks than I with James Parsons. The score now YOU:1, ME:0.
Good for you James to continue learning. It's enjoyable
Mike "Kube" Kubarth
My generation called all coupes without a back seat, "business coupe", no matter what the manufacturer called them. We also called cars with jump seats "opera coupe". All convertibles were called "convertibles", nobody called them "cabriolets".
If we are going to call car models and parts of cars by the names that manufacturers called them, we would have to get out our reference material every time we talked about cars. We would have to use instrument panel instead of dash or dashboard, dash board instead of firewall and change many other common usage titles that we use to call car parts. We would have to remember that Ford called the 38 car models Standard and Deluxe, but in 1939 they were called Ford and Deluxe Ford. We need to remember that the sales literature gave different names than the parts catalogs in some cases.
Tom
Nothing like taking it to the extremes Tom. I am just talking about this subject, not every car that has a stupid nickname or is called something else in error. We are supposed to be the experts on these vehicles, so maybe we should strive to get it right in our "award winning" magazine. Don't get me wrong, I love our magazine and they do a great job over there. They did publish my photo without giving me credit, but I'll let that slide.
Ford Freak,
No, there is no such thing as a 1937 Ford Business Coupe. Please read the previous posts. Thanks.
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This message was edited by TonyM on 2-6-20 @ 11:25 AM
You KNOW I respect you - you deserve respect.
However, in this instance I must respectfully disagree, at least in part to your recent post.
What's wrong with learning the correct terms for anything? Car related or not, it is never to late in life to learn. Lord knows I've picked your brain a number of times (thank you).
How about instead of folks becoming complacent with our worn out and incorrect terms -we strive for correctness?
I'll start... in 1939 Ford still used "Deluxe" and "Standard". It was in 1940 that "Standard" was no longer to be used. Rather, this model was to be referred to as the "Ford V8".
Mike "Kube" Kubarth
Should the correct nomenclature as used by Ford be used today, especially within the club dedicated to preserving the history of Ford? I think so.
Should we, and the magazine, consider the reading audience and use nomenclature in common usage to not confuse the broader audience, especially people new to the club? I think so.
Yeah, I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here, because I see the merits in both sides of this debate.
Maybe a good practice would be to use the correct name and add a parenthesis to it. Like "....38 Ford Deluxe Coupe (business coupe)...." or "Ford V8 (a.k.a. Standard)". This may help educate people, let them see the correct name next to the common usage term.
But it probably also depends on the context. If just writing a forum post, do I want to write "......dashboard (firewall)....."? I think I will just stick with firewall, to avoid confusion.
Good healthy debate!
When anyone says that we can only use the "correct" terms, it bothers me. I find that the terms used depend upon the source. Then I have to know which source is the "correct" source and why it was decided that it was the correct source. I also want to know why we have to have a correctness police in a hobby that is supposed to be fun.
The purpose of a Club publication is to keep the Club members informed and educated about the Club's activities and the cars of its members. The use of the term "business coupe" to describe a car with a body style that does not have a back seat serves the purpose of communicating with the members. Most people know what it is and if they don't, they can easily find the definition on the Internet. The term "coupe" could lead to confusion with someone not familiar with Ford cars and models, it could mean a coupe with a back seat or without a back seat. Even Ford's sales department was confused about what to call a coupe with a back seat. Some years they called it a "Club Coupe" and other years they called it a "Sedan Coupe".
(Edit) The reference books like the one Mike is writing, need to have the correct terms. It is up to the author to decide which source is the most correct and it should show up in the bibliography. Articles in the magazine that are to be used as reference material, also should use correct terms. So I must agree that there are time when we must insist on "correct" names and terms, but there are times when we must grant some slack to the author. (end Edit)
Mike, I just read the descriptions that the sales department used in sales brochure 7046 dated 4-39. The cars are described as the "New De Luxe Ford V-8" and the "New Ford V-8". The January 1939 Chassis Parts Catalog uses the terms "De Luxe" and "Standard". So which source is "correct" and who determined it and why did they say it is the only correct name?
http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Ford/1939_Ford/1939_Ford_Brochure/1939%20Ford-16.html
Tom
This message was edited by TomO on 2-7-20 @ 9:47 AM
Always a great respect for you and enjoy reading your posts.
I really enjoyed the article about your car. I was there at the Ford Foundation when you were in front working on the Merc.
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Thanks for straightening this out.
Ken
This message was edited by trjford8 on 2-8-20 @ 8:27 AM
I remember your "Hello" along with many others, when I was working on the car at the museum. Like I said in my article, I should have used the advice that I give and not fall into the trap of jumping to conclusions and replacing parts. If I had used my jumper cables to go directly from the battery to the starter, I would have known that it was either the battery or the starter. My voltmeter would have eliminated the battery as the problem. Of course it is much easier to have 20-20 hindsight, that to have 20-20 vision.
Tom
Frank
Hey, just because someone has thought for many years that one plus one equals three, doesn't make it correct. Passing along misinformation does the next person attempting to learn an injustice.
Mike "Kube" Kubarth
This message was edited by kubes40 on 2-9-20 @ 5:07 PM
Paul in CT