| jyakel | -- 06-17-2018 @ 10:59 AM |
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Gentlemen, You all probably know Randy Rundle at the Fifth Avenue Garage in Clay Center, Kansas and his 6V alternator for old Fords and other classic cars. My question to you is this: If I install one of Randy's 6V alternators I have to change from positive ground to negative ground, so how will that affect my dash clock and stock tube radio in my 1950 Ford Custom Fordor? Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated. John
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| carcrazy | -- 06-17-2018 @ 12:37 PM |
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It won't affect your original tube radio as long as you still have a mechanical vibrator in it.
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| TomO | -- 06-18-2018 @ 7:28 AM |
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Why don't you just buy a 6 volt POS ground alternator? Or stay with the stock generator, it will keep your battery charged. If you change polarity, remember to change the coil polarity also. Tom
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| kubes40 | -- 06-18-2018 @ 8:03 AM |
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I'm with you Tom. I get a laugh each time one of these modifications is termed an "upgrade". Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| supereal | -- 06-19-2018 @ 2:01 PM |
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I agree with my friends Tom and Mike. Positive ground alternators are not hard to find. Most are the "one wire" kind and replace the generator with a new "wishbone" bracket. At our shop we have installed these, and found that some must be revved up considerably to come on. Another complaint is that the charging current is not much, if any, better than generator in good condition. We experimented by making up a smaller diameter pulley for the unit, which did improve it a bit, but requires keeping the belt very tight, which can cause damage to the bushings in water pumps without ball bearings.
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| 42guy | -- 06-19-2018 @ 3:43 PM |
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I have one from an outfit I think in Chicago area. I forget cause I don't remember what I had for supper yesterday. Anyway they have ads in V8 Times. It starts working at idle and I had one as Super says that have to get about 1500 rpm to kick on. I had for about a year and started acting up. They replaced it or repaired mine, I don't know which. No questions asked. I have one as I use an electric fan some times.
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| GK1918 | -- 06-20-2018 @ 2:45 AM |
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Just a note: I bought a 6vt pos. ground Powermaster. Installed it and It put out less the the generator, with lights on it shows discharge. Here is what I discovered. Most people including myself thought being mounted (bolted) is sufficient grounding. Not so. I found the ground stud is isoslated. So I put a ground wire from that stud to a carbruator nut. Holy smokes with everything on it charges at idle. After starting it goes up to 35-40 amps and quickly trickles back. Next note is you are to buy a Powermaster (look like a generator) you must buy one for your engine another word, one for a 8BA 49 to 53 will NOT fit pre 1949s like 59A and back to 1942. (belts don't line up) sam
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| len47merc | -- 06-20-2018 @ 5:17 AM |
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Waxing a bit political here, this topic is analogous to the current US of the offended, that being how quick the country is now in this age of Facebook, Twitter, etc., to accept misrepresentations, accusations, falsehoods, snippets, etc., as fact without thinking about what else may be going on, what the rest of the story is, was it taken out of context, separating fact from fiction, etc. The analogy here is it continues to amaze me, as Mike notes, how quickly we are (and I admit I was one earlier) to accept any change to originality as a needed 'upgrade' prior to optimizing the system, component, item in question and preserving/restoring it to original condition prior to determining whether 'upgrades' are needed or not. Personally I cannot think of even one area of the EFV8's I've had experience with to date that, when restored to as-original operating condition, failed to meet and/or exceed the performance needs and expectations. This is especially true of 6V pos ground electrical systems, headlights, etc., as well as cooling systems. Not once have I ever been dissatisfied with any EFV8 system's or component's performance when taking the time to research any issue and investing the time to 'do it right'. My comments are specific to original EFV8's - all bets are off for modifieds. Love 42guy's comment about ultimately using a 6V alternator as an electric fan. Steve
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| slowforty | -- 06-20-2018 @ 5:47 AM |
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https://store.alternatorparts.com/6voltalternatorconversionrepairkits.aspx This is a site that sells six volt conversion kits for 12 volt alternators They are reasonably priced
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| jyakel | -- 06-28-2018 @ 7:30 AM |
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Okay, okay, I was looking for advice here, not criticism, so all who gave me their good advice, thank you. All of this is new territory for me and as such the learning curve can be (is) steep. (You can appreciate that because you probably were their too at one time.) I will take your good advice and clean up everything generator/electrical related in my '50 Ford and see if it will work as it did back in the day. John
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| TomO | -- 06-29-2018 @ 7:47 AM |
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John, I like your car. Thanks for posting a photo. My comment was not meant to be critical, I just did not understand the need to buy a NEG ground alternator when POS ground alternators are available. My experience with 6 volt alternators is that they are more troublesome than a generator. My Lincoln came with one and it would drain the battery in 4 hours, due to shorted diodes. I had new diodes installed and they lasted a whole 6 months. I went back to the generator and have not had a problem with the charging system in the 3 years since. I do like to keep the cars as close to original as I can, because I find that most modifications make the car less reliable and problem harder to diagnose. Tom
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| len47merc | -- 06-29-2018 @ 10:34 AM |
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My apologies. After re-reading my earlier post I realized a 'snarkiness' existed that was unintended. I do stand on the originality foundation as the best long-term option for stock vehicles - it certainly could have worded it better. Shouldn't have watched the morning news that day. Tom's comments about alternator longevity and associated ease (or lack thereof) of troubleshooting simple problems are on the mark. Very nice car - my father owned one in the late 50's. First car I can remember riding in. Steve
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| jyakel | -- 06-30-2018 @ 5:04 AM |
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Tom and Steve, Please know I greatly value the advice and experience of good and loyal EFV8 members like you two. You guys, and others, have set me straight on many things old Ford related. I wish I could be a 'fly on the wall' as they say in your shops/garages and learn from you and the other masters in our club-like Ken ct. (Ken rebuilt a 94 carburetor for me and it works perfectly.) I thank him everyday. As it turned out here is what I did with my '50 Ford after your posts: 1. I tabled the idea of going to a 6V alternator after reading your posts. 2. Instead, I took my generator and starter off and brought them to our local starter/alternator shop in Glasgow, KY. (The guys there flat out know everything there is to know about starter, generators etc, etc. Their shop has starter parts everywhere, only they know where stuff is, cat sleeping on the counter, you get the picture.) They bench tested my generator and starter. Both tested fine with brushes that 'will last longer than you and me together' they said. 3. So, I went through the primary wiring/ignition system and cleaned every contact and connection to a bright and brassy shine. 4. I put the battery on a charger last night so it will be a full charge when I attempt to start it up today. 5. After chores and Saturday errands I am going to see if it will fire up and charge as it should. That is the plan anyway. Again, Tom and Steve, apologies not necessary. No offense, none meant, none taken. I greatly value your advice. Please keep it coming to me and others. And Steve you are correct, the world news these days can make any one crazy. Thank you guys, John
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| sarahcecelia | -- 06-30-2018 @ 8:35 AM |
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Just buy a 6volt positive ground one. Randy has them. Regards, Steve Lee
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| jyakel | -- 07-03-2018 @ 6:12 AM |
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Steve Lee, I appreciate your good advice, but I think my problem(s) of poor starting are resolved without adding a 6V alternator. Instead, I cleaning every electrical contact in the primary engine/starting system to a bright and brassy shine. I installed a new/rebuilt carburetor (rebuilt by EFV8 member, Ken ct ) The old carburetor was eaten up by ethanol gas. The power piston leaked raw gas on the intake manifold. Not a good scenario. So now my '50 Ford starts strong and idles smoothly. And, honestly, I do like the advice of Tom O and Steve about keeping classic Ford cars as original as possible. I still have other obstacles to address (Trico windshield washer unit) but as per the rules of our EFV8 discussion forums I will start another thread and ask for advice about those issues. Thank you Steve, John
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| ken ct. | -- 07-03-2018 @ 8:18 AM |
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I agree that's not an UPGRADE to me its a down grade OMO. ken ct
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| kirkstad | -- 07-09-2018 @ 7:36 AM |
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I was talked into switching to a 6 volt pos. grd. alternator a number of years ago on my 36, because I was told it would charge at idle,it doesn't, it only kicks on at about 1000 rpm.I am told that alternators need battery voltage to excite them at low rpm, meaning additional wiring.I would see no advantage in switching to an alternator in a later flat head with a voltage regulator,but with my 36 it seems I was always overcharging my battery no matter how much I moved the third brush and over charging meant I was always adding water to the battery. The alternators built in regulator is an advantage for me,as the battery recovers from initial start up or turning on lights etc. the amp. needle will move back to center. Anyway, as they say it works for me and no, I would never attempt to enter a concourse not that my car is show quality anyway. Because of the simple mount and one wire hookup I can put my generator back on in a matter of minuets.
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| TomO | -- 07-09-2018 @ 8:49 AM |
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You could have used a voltage regulator that replaces the cutout. http://www.funprojects.com/search?querystr=1936&querytype=year Tom
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| kirkstad | -- 07-09-2018 @ 10:33 AM |
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Thank's Tom.That's what I like about this forum you learn something new every day,but sometimes later than I would like.Hopefully someone else will see this post and not make the same mistake as I. Frank
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| GK1918 | -- 07-12-2018 @ 3:51 AM |
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I agree Ken I hate that word "Modern" or upgrades. My 46 is the main line set of wheels. Oh yea my so called modern F350 gets 2 mpg down hill >garbage fuel injected 460 while my 46 uses all of a whole 15 bucks a month and will whip that 460 in a flash. BUT sometimes one gets pushed into this alternator stuff when you have a cooked generator. So for a pristine correct generator they want the big bucks and the Waiting time shipping etc. So I went to local vender for a look a like alternator. He didn't have a generator in stock but had a 6vt pos grd. alt. It was the downtime why I did it sam
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