| chask | -- 03-03-2018 @ 11:59 AM |
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Stumped again! The 1937 ½ ton pickup I bought did not have shock absorbers installed. I was able to find some good ones to use for now and get rebuilt later if necessary. When I went to install the front shocks the shock arm and the radius rod connection point are only 1.5” apart with the shock about in the center of it’s travel (up and down). Per the green bible the link should be 4” long but it obviously won’t fit between the two attach points. The truck stands at the right height and does not appear to be lowered so I am at a loss as to why the two attach points are so close. I attached some pictures (this post and next) so you can see what I’m up against. Any opinions or things to try is appreciated. Thanks, Charlie
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| chask | -- 03-03-2018 @ 11:59 AM |
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Second picture Thanks, Charlie
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| trjford8 | -- 03-04-2018 @ 9:22 AM |
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Your rubber bump stop is clearly riding on the front spring. Your pickup has to be a rough ride in the front end. Your spring needs to be re-arched by a competent spring shop. That will get the front off the stop and increase the distance between the shock arm and the lower mounting point. I don't see broken leafs in the spring, but they could be broken near the center bolt. Also you need to check to see if there is a crack in the front crossmember. That is a fairly common problem in old pickups.
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| TomO | -- 03-04-2018 @ 9:53 AM |
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The Green Misinformation book only shows the current (1950) service replacement parts, so it is not always correct. My 1939 Chassis parts catalog shows shock absorber P/N 81A-18045-A and 81A-18046-A as the current replacement for the 1937 commercial front shocks. Later books show the 11A prefix for the shocks. all of my material shows the 4" links in the front. The original shocks were substituted by 1939. The problem is that the shock arms are different lengths and the longer arms require different links. I cannot find a chart with the arm length, but the drawings of the 81A prefix shocks show a much shorter arm than the 01A prefix shocks. It looks like you may have a longer arm shock and will have to find the size link that will work with your vehicle. I would get the suspension at the upper limit of travel and the shock arm at its upper level and then find a link that will fit. Tom
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| chask | -- 03-04-2018 @ 10:42 AM |
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Thanks for the replies, I was afraid the spring might be the issue since the clearance seems too small between the axle and bumper. I measured the distance from the bumper to the axle (where it contacts) and it is about 2.5". The distance from the axle to the frame is 4". Does anyone know what these distances should be? I did look for broken spring leafs but didn't see any and the cross member looks OK from what I can see. I'm not sure what shock part numbers I have and have spent hours and days trying to figure out how to tell with no luck. My criteria for sorting thru the shocks was the diameter of the body and the mounting holes. Even looking on the Apple Hydraulics site the arm part numbers are not always the same for the same year and application. With the shocks I have, the mounting holes line up to the frame and the arm ends up directly above the radius rod connection point. I don't know if that is correct or not. Should the arm be in line with, in front or in back of the connection point? I like the idea of using a shorter link which may let me use the shocks until I can get the spring looked at. Not an easy task in my neck of the woods. Attached is a picture of the bumper and axle. I appreciate all your help since I have more ambition than knowledge on these trucks. Thanks, Charlie
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| trjford8 | -- 03-06-2018 @ 7:59 AM |
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Thanks for the better photo. The first photo appeared to put the bumper over the spring. I should've remembered that it is actually over the axle. I was on the computer much too early. I do see where the bumper has been contacting the axle, so it might be time to pull the spring and maybe have it re-arched. TomO is correct about the varying lengths of the shock arms. Do you see part #'s on the arms?
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| chask | -- 03-06-2018 @ 11:35 AM |
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Thanks trjford8 for the reply, I think you are right that the spring has lost its sprung! I have been reading about removing the spring and it sounds dangerous. Also, I don’t have a spring spreader so would need to secure one of those before even attempting the job. I will need to investigate more to gain more confidence or see if someone close by is able to do the spring. In the mean time I was hoping the shock would help minimize the bottoming out since there are no shocks on now. (wishful thinking?) The shock arms are P/N F-746 and are 6” from the center line of the rotating shaft to the center line of the link hole. I was going by the pictures of the shocks that Apple Hydraulics is selling for a 1937 ½ ton pickup which are P/N F-746. The other numbers on the body of the shock just below the arm attachment point (the threaded portion to open the shock body) is P1722 and on the back mounting surface is P1617Y. I can’t find any info on those part numbers or cross reference to Ford numbers I did a mock up on cardboard today and it looks like 3” links will work with reserve travel in both directions. I will need to verify on the truck but need warmer weather (5-8” of snow tonight and tomorrow). Can’t wait for spring! Thanks, Charlie
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| TomO | -- 03-07-2018 @ 7:21 AM |
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Charlie, quick check of the ride height is to look at the fender to wheel clearance. See the photos of the trucks in the gallery. If your truck looks like it sits lower, you should look for new springs. They are still available from some sources that have NOS parts. Search the forum for a spring spreader. There are a couple of topics on home made spreaders. they also give instructions on removing and replacing the spring. Tom
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| chask | -- 03-07-2018 @ 10:10 AM |
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Thanks Tom, I would say that the whole truck sits a little lower by about an inch than the 1937 in the Gallery. That would say that the back spring is probably weak also. It’s not easy to tell from pictures that’s why I was hoping someone would know what the correct distance is from the axle to the frame. I’ve been reading about replacing the spring and it seems dangerous especially since I’ve never done it before. I will need to get some confidence to attempt it but I do want to try. That’s the reason for having a not perfect truck so I can learn. I have time to do more research since the weather is not cooperating. Here’s a picture of the truck from the side if you have any opinions on how bad it is. Thanks, Charlie
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| TomO | -- 03-08-2018 @ 8:06 AM |
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Charlie, the shop notes do not give ride height or distance from axle to frame or spring. The one measurement that they give to help determine if a spring is serviceable is loaded length. As a spring becomes weaker, its loaded length becomes longer. The loaded length of the front spring is 40.3" eye to eye. Your pickup looks like the ride height is pretty close the one in the Gallery, but I am not sure. Tom
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| trjford8 | -- 03-08-2018 @ 8:18 AM |
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Charlie, the rear looks pretty good to me. The front may be a little low, but it's hard to tell for sure. Removing a spring can be a task if you have not done it before. If you can find a spring shop near you it might be better to pay them to remove it and replace it. You should have a spring spreader or Port-A- Power to do it. If you live near a V-8 Club regional group you might call them( they are listed in the club roster) and see if there is help available to lead you through the process. This message was edited by trjford8 on 3-8-18 @ 8:19 AM
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| chask | -- 03-08-2018 @ 10:32 AM |
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Thanks Tom and Trjford8 for the info, The loaded spring measurement info is exactly what I was looking for since I like to work in hard numbers. I measured my spring from center of shackle to center of shackle where the spring connects and it is ~40 3/8” which is right in line with the 40.3” Tom found in his shop notes. I don’t plan on hauling anything in the bed so the only additional weight will be passengers. I will re-measure after I get some passenger weight to see if it changes significantly. I do belong to our local V8 club (about 1.5 hours away) and have talked with some of the guys that have experience working on their cars. They have been a big help not only with advice but in finding parts but said most of the shops that they would recommend for work have closed up. I think based on the latest measurements I will try and install the shock absorbers and new axle bumpers and see if it still bottoms out. If it does I will try to find a shop to replace the spring. I still have lots to keep me busy. The truck did not have a parking brake (no parts at all) but I managed to find all the parts needed at Hersey this past fall. I will need to replace one of the rear backer plates since it is very rusty and the parking brake cable tube is missing. Also, the transmission jumps out of second when you let up on the gas so I want to remove the shift tower and see if the forks or the ball on the shift rod are bad. There is lots of left to right play of the shift rod even when in gear so my guess is something is worn. I’ll be back on the forum with more questions for that one I’m sure! Thanks again for your help!! Thanks, Charlie
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| chask | -- 03-29-2018 @ 10:02 AM |
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Update: While trying to install the Shock Absorbers I took a better look at the whole steering system and decided to replace the tie rod ends, drag link and king pins. While under the truck I started looking at the spring again and noticed the U-Bolt castle nuts did not have the cotter pins installed. Also one of the nuts was way lower on the bolt than the others. I used a ½” socket wrench and tried to move the low one and it was very easy to turn (I turned it at least one revolution to bring it flush to the bottom of the threads). Here’s my questions 1. What is the correct torque for the U-Bolt nuts? 2. Can they just be tightened to the correct torque and cotter pins installed? 3. If so, is it best to support the frame and let the axle drop or tighten them with the weight of the truck on the spring. I attached a picture of the U-Bolts if that helps, Thanks for your help once again. Thanks, Charlie
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