| carguy | -- 02-07-2018 @ 6:16 AM |
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I am planning to take my '34 to the Dearborn Meet in June and I would like to have folks who know what is correct judge my car. I have worked to keep my car authentic but I have not been a slave to it and have made some primarily electrical modifications to help make it more derivable. Looking at the concourse rules I assume I will enter my car in the Concourse Division. Here are my questions: Will I get a written list of the non-stock deviations? Am I opening myself up to uncomfortable criticism? Is there an operational or driving part of the judging? Any comments about this experience, particularly first time experiences, will be welcomed and appreciated. Bill Brown '34 Cabriolet
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| Kens 36 | -- 02-07-2018 @ 6:52 AM |
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Bill, I'm glad that you are planning to bring your '34 Cabriolet. Yes, it will be judged by folks that know about these cars. You will get a written report in the form of the judging sheets used at these meets. If you have not already done so, you can download a copy of these sheets from this site. On the left side, click on National Club Information, then Forms. There are several forms there used for judging. The specific form that will show everything that the judges check is called "Judging Supplement 1932-1948" - this will be returned to you with the judges comments at the end of the meet. The judges will help you understand what is correct about your vehicle and note areas where improvements are needed. Some folks are happy to receive this information, others may take it as "uncomfortable criticism". For me, I'm always happy to know where I can improve my car. I was terrified my first time. The professionalism of the judges made me feel much better. There is no driving part of the judging, except that all vehicles must be driven onto the concourse. There is an "Operational Check" before Concourse Day that checks each vehicle for proper operation of lights, brakes, horn, and more. Mostly safety-related items. You also must have an approved fire extinguisher with the vehicle. Hope this helps. Ken Bounds
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| pauls39coupe | -- 02-07-2018 @ 6:53 AM |
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Yes you will receive a written list of all the items that were judged correct or incorrect on your car. This is not a car show to see who has the most chrome or flashy paint. You will start out with a possible 1000 points and receive deductions for things that are not correct. If you have original accessories they must work. Just keep that in mind if you have an incorrect accessory remove it before the show or there will be points deducted. Wear a thick skin because there are likely things on your car that are not as they were produced by Ford. Don't take offence as the cars are judged against a standard of how they looked when they rolled out the door of the Ford plant in 1934. They did not come with chrome axles or roll and pleat leather interiors, no matter how nice these additions may look. The judges are not out to "kill" your car, just point out what was stock, or not. They may find things that were changed 80 years ago when it was just a used car. Please don't be offended. The operational check is the first part of judging. This insures that all the cars on the concourse are road worthy, not just trailer queens. The inspectors will look for a correct fire extinguisher first thing. This is a 1000 point deduction so be sure you have the required type in your car. They will also check the lights, horn, parking brake, and glass. If you have add on lights such as fog lights they will have to work also or there will be points deducted. Have fun I hope to see you there.
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| OLDTMR | -- 02-07-2018 @ 8:16 AM |
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Just reading about the judging and notice there is a 1000 point deduction for not having a fire extinguisher, Wondered what 34 Ford left the factory with one of those ? I understand it being for safety reasons but not original equipment unless I missed something ?
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| woodiewagon46 | -- 02-07-2018 @ 8:29 AM |
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Oldtmr, one has nothing to do with the other. Fire extinguishers are required by some antique car organizations for safety reasons. It's because of the close proximity of cars being shown. Lets say one car has a fire, why have to wait for the Fire Department to extinguish it. If everyone has a fire extinguisher a major fire can be avoided. Yes, you are missing something!
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| TomO | -- 02-07-2018 @ 8:36 AM |
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I would purchase the 1933-1934 book and read it before the meet. The book will give you a good idea of what the judges will be looking for. With it and the judging sheet, you will have a good idea of how many points will be deducted and if there are some changes that you might want to make. Some examples of changes that might be easy to make, if they are on your car, are exhaust pipe extensions, incorrect tire valve caps, incorrect license plate frames and clamp on mirrors. When you read the judging sheet and the book, the easy things to correct should become obvious. If it looks like your car may lose too many points, you can always enter it into Touring Class. These classes are for members that have made changes to their cars so they are more comfortable for touring. Cars in this class are not point judged, members vote for the car that they would like to take on a tour. You will be driving your trophy at Dearborn and I hope that you will have a lot of fun discussing cars and admiring the cars and the work that the owners did to bring them to a National Meet. I for one am looking forward to seeing your 34. It is one of my favorite years fo Ford. Tom
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| 3w2 | -- 02-07-2018 @ 8:55 AM |
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As you can appreciate, being human beings the degree of accurate knowledge among individual judges varies all over the map. Not stated above, but integral in the process is that you have the responsibility to document anything that may be controversial. That documentation ideally is from Ford's archives or from Ford documents in the public domain such as chassis and body parts catalogues and service bulletins. Relying on hearsay or suppliers' offerings is not documentation. A classic example of the latter are the multiple choices of upholstery top material offered by firms such as LeBaron Bonney. They clearly state what they have that is closest to the original, but they also offer other choices of non-original colors and materials to cater to individual tastes, which in this hobby are all over the map. If, for example, a person takes the latter route, point deductions will be made accordingly. Lastly, if you believe some item or items have been judged incorrectly, you have the right to appeal those deductions with either the Club's Chief Judge or Assistant Chief Judge at the concourse.
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| 42wagon | -- 02-07-2018 @ 12:13 PM |
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Keep in mind that your car is being judged by itself, not in comparison with other cars on the field as might be the case in other shows. The goal is to have your car as close to the way it left the Ford assembly plant or dealer as possible. You start with 1000 points and there will be deductions for items that are incorrect. You mentioned that you have made changes to make the car more drive able. Depending what you have done there may be considerable points taken off. Will the criticism be uncomfortable? Only if you think what modifications you have done are reasonable even if there is no way they would have been part of the car originally. You must ask yourself if your goal is to have a 1000 point car or just to have fun and enjoy driving it. If your answer is just to have fun then you probably belong in the touring class if you have made considerable modifications.
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| MG | -- 02-07-2018 @ 12:47 PM |
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Enter you car to have it judged on the Concours Field and to h*ll with any point deductions. Take satisfaction in knowing that you have a car just good enough to be there. Think of it as a learning experience and enjoy the day....
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| ford38v8 | -- 02-07-2018 @ 12:53 PM |
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Bill, I agree with all of the above, and would add the following: Your statement that you have made electrical modifications leads me to emphasize that modifications from original will result in point deductions. You may minimize those deductions by replacing modern wiring with correct wiring having the original type of insulation, which is available from several makers and most suppliers. On the Concourse, brief notes are sometimes made referencing specific deductions, and are explained by the Deputy immediately after your car is judged. It is best that you understand those deductions at that time of review, and to make your own notes thereafter. The judging sheets will be given to owners at the awards banquet, after which you may research each item you may wish to correct. Alan
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| jim1932 | -- 02-07-2018 @ 1:47 PM |
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where do you find what the various categories represent? For example Touring and Touring A says vehicles will be subject to under-hood inspection for allowable equipment. Mine is pretty original, but not rouge. I'd like to run it with my Simmons power head, intake and carb set up, which is (I think) period correct.
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| ford38v8 | -- 02-07-2018 @ 2:35 PM |
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jim, A Simmons Power Head, while not being a Ford Authorized Accessory, would not disqualify you from entering the Concourse in a point judged category. I would certainly not consider changing that for Concourse reasons if it were mine! Alan This message was edited by ford38v8 on 2-7-18 @ 2:43 PM
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| jim1932 | -- 02-07-2018 @ 4:35 PM |
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Yeah, but where can you read about what the categories are? I am leaning towards concourse just to get the judging and list of things to determine if I want to fix. There are things I would rather leave on for the interest factor (Montgomery Wards heater) and take the hit on the judging, but at least I would know what I would gain by taking it off. If I could get to a high award I would take stuff off and put the originals on, just don't think I can get there, so I would rather keep it as a 30's car as someone may have assembled it. Hope I can get to dearborn...there are a number of people who have been helping me for years, would like for them to see the car (Dave, Roy, Charlie and others).
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| trjford8 | -- 02-07-2018 @ 5:49 PM |
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Jim entering your car is a learning process. I suspect you may already know the things that are wrong, so they will come as no surprise. You probably want to know those things that you are not aware of that are wrong. The only way to find out is to enter it in the judged class. The Touring class cars are not judged so you do not find out what you may want to correct in the future. The bottom line is enter the car, find out what is needed to be corrected and most of all have a good time. It 's the people you connect with at the meet that will make your trip to Dearborn a memorable trip.
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| carguy | -- 02-08-2018 @ 5:08 AM |
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Thank you all very much for taking the time to answer my questions and making me comfortable about entering my car. I'm now looking forward to the experience. As I said my only interest in having her judged is so that I will understand the areas items that are not concourse correct. It will not bother me to loose points. My only other EFV8 meet experience was in Branson a number of years ago. I really enjoyed seeing all of the beautiful Fords that I remember form my childhood. It made me wish that I had driven mine instead of a Viper. Bill Brown '34 Cabriolet
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| TomO | -- 02-08-2018 @ 8:18 AM |
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Jim, you can read about the different classes and requirements for each class in the Judging Manual pages 5 and 6 for Touring and Touring A vehicles. The engine compartment is inspected at the Operational Check to ensure that the owner knows that only Ford bodied cars, powered by 1932- 1953 Ford manufactured engines are allowed on the Concourse for National Trophys. Tom
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| FrankM-RG5 | -- 02-09-2018 @ 7:14 AM |
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You are not specific about the electrical changes but if you added turn signals that is considered a safety item no pints would be deducted.
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