| MICHV8 | -- 11-15-2017 @ 1:49 PM |
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I’m trying to get that 59AB mentioned in another post running well enough to try Tom()’s MMO approach due to some stuck valves, but I have found another issue. Sometimes the engine starts right away and idles roughly and other times it tries, but won’t fire. I’ve found that I have a spark at some, but not all, plugs. I’m working alone with a button solenoid so it is hard to reach the driver’s side plugs, but plug 2 and 3 have no spark and 4 does. So I took all the wires (which are new and were tested prior to install) off and, per Supereal’s suggestion from years ago, soldered the connections just to be sure. Did the high tension wire as well. Then did a continuity test on all wires and they are all good. Then did a continuity test on the cap and all sockets tested good. I’m using a crab and the rotor slips onto the stem, but not as tightly as others do. Kind of a head scratcher…do I have a runtime arc somewhere in the cap or is the rotor shifting somehow?
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| ken ct. | -- 11-15-2017 @ 2:43 PM |
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Check your PM's. ken ct
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| MICHV8 | -- 11-16-2017 @ 10:32 AM |
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forgot to mention coil and condenser are new
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| fsacht | -- 11-16-2017 @ 2:57 PM |
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Your situation sounds familiar. I am running a crab cap on my 48 Merc. chased this for a long time and discovered that the steel strip on the rotor that sends current to the plug wires had twisted and bent to the side and must have been only making intermittent contact with the cap center terminal. I straightened that metal strip and bent it upward from the point it is secured to the rotor then carefully reinstalled the cap. My rotor also has some movement at the center shaft. So far so good.
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| MICHV8 | -- 11-16-2017 @ 3:32 PM |
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I believe that I have a mechanical vs electrical arc issue in that the rotor doesn't appear to traverse a circle when it rotates. It is harder than heck to take photos that demonstrate my concern, but I'll post 4 in a row. When eyeballing it from a level position, it appears that the stem tilts to the side. However, I took a couple junk crabs from the box and they all appear to have a little tilt, so now I'm not at all sure...photo1
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| MICHV8 | -- 11-16-2017 @ 3:33 PM |
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photo2
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| MICHV8 | -- 11-16-2017 @ 3:33 PM |
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photo3
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| MICHV8 | -- 11-16-2017 @ 3:34 PM |
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photo4
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| TomO | -- 11-16-2017 @ 5:30 PM |
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Mich, you can use a jumper wire connected to the center terminal of the starter solenoid as a remote starter switch, just ground the jumper wire when you want to turn the engine over. Are you missing the spark at the same plugs or does it move around? Have you tried looking for spark inside the conduits? Is the rotor hitting the cap terminals? Does the point dwell vary when the engine is running? Tom
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| Drbrown | -- 11-16-2017 @ 6:11 PM |
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My experience with rotors etc. Have a crab points set-up in my '47 with 59AB. Shortly after purchase, and thinking I was doing a good thing, installed a new rotor from NAPA. The brass arm on the rotor end broke immediately from hitting the lugs on the cap interior. NAPA gave me a replacement and that broke too. The cap on the dizzy was the one that came with the car and it had worked fine with the old rotor. The crab was fitted with a Pentrox module. Sent the whole unit to Bubba's and he got it working explaining that he checks the alignment and clearance between the rotor and cap lugs to meet ford spec clearance. He said he normally has to file the ends of most new rotor arms in order to get adequate/proper clearance. He also checked the shaft to be sure it didn't wobble. Have had no problems like that since. PS: Had tapping noise in valve chamber when purchased. Could have been from prior owner letting engine sit. Put a little MMO in first oil change and in gas. Noise stopped after a little bit of driving. I continue to put MMO in my gas. I use 10w-30 detergent oil; no filter; changing at 1000 miles. This message was edited by Drbrown on 11-16-17 @ 6:25 PM
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| MICHV8 | -- 11-17-2017 @ 5:18 AM |
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Thanks Tom() and Drbrown Bubba's is tempting, but I'm fond of puzzles and this is a good one. I'll try looking for a spark at the cap conduits and see if the results vary from test to test...currently she won't start due to spark irregularity (I assume)
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| ken ct. | -- 11-17-2017 @ 5:34 AM |
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Look at where your rotor brass blade is in photo #1 and last photo. Blade in last one is acuallyb over hanging the outside of the housing,and inside on the first one. Pointing to a bent shaft (though hard to do as its pretty short compared to say a helmet shaft.) Either poorly made rotors or cap is not seated correctly ,I have USA made rotors and points if you need. I got NO response from PM I sent you ?? Something isn't kosha there. ken ct.
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| TomO | -- 11-17-2017 @ 6:38 AM |
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Ken, I believe that the difference in rotor overhang is due to camera position and the angle that the distributor is held by the boards. Unless you have a precision stand for the camera and are able to center the distributor exactly parallel to the camera's focal plane, you will have some distortion. Tom
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| cliftford | -- 11-17-2017 @ 8:04 AM |
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I would set it up on a sun distributor machine or a K R Wilson distributor fixture and attach a stationary pointer to make sure the rotor is running concentric and on a flat plane. Have you checked for wear in the housing that would allow it to wobble?
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| MICHV8 | -- 11-17-2017 @ 8:22 AM |
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ken ct responded through site to your PM the day it was received...other than that, no idea what is wrong
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| MICHV8 | -- 11-18-2017 @ 5:22 AM |
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I kept looking at the stem angle and decided to remove the plate to do a side by side with some old crusty components that I had saved down through the years. Well, it did appear to have a little angle than the crusty one and was VERY difficult to remove from the housing. So I cleaned up the crusty plate and put on new points (which were from Drake and the brass pivot bearing was too long which wouldn’t allow the thin washer. So as a temporary measure simply put the cotter pin on top of the pivot bearing…I will fix it the once things stabilize. Chinese junk I assume). Then set the gap to .14, left the advance slide mid-point for now, and installed the distributor. Engine fired right up with spark at #1 (which had no spark with other plate). So I will do more testing. The dwell shows as a steady 14 and I believe 28 is correct, right? And advance is set by moving the index slide counter-clockwise 2 notches for 4 degrees BTC, right? .Anyway, I will update as I work through this… This message was edited by MICHV8 on 11-18-17 @ 6:40 AM
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| TomO | -- 11-18-2017 @ 9:03 AM |
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Total dwell should be 36 degrees. The left hand set of points establishes the timing. Are you sure that both sets of points are closing? A dwell of of 22 1/2 degrees is right for one set of points and combined it should be 36 degrees. Set both sets at .015" - .016" and then using the ruler method set the timing. The wider setting allows for initial wear in of the rubbing block. The correct timing should be set with the slider at the center point. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_engines_distr-timing.htm Tom
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| supereal | -- 11-22-2017 @ 2:17 PM |
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The crab type cap requires a rotor specific to that cap. It is 21A-12200, ten bucks at C&G. Many choose the crab cap because it is easier to assemble than the later two part cap. The crab was only used two years because it wouldn't prevent rain water that came thru the radiator from shorting out the high voltage spark plug cables. It became popular in the hot rod days so the plug wires were more easily accessed.
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| MICHV8 | -- 11-23-2017 @ 5:44 AM |
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Supereal yep, that's the one I use. However it is interesting that Drake (catalog #30,page 138) specifically states that use can use rotor 59A-12200 on a 21A crab? I never do...
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| ken ct. | -- 11-23-2017 @ 7:07 AM |
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Drake is up a tree with that statement . The rotors are NOT interchangeable. Your right about the camera angle,my bad on that. A warped plate also will be hard to seat the large clip properly. Not sur what you mean by putting a cotter pin where you said. MY bushings are correct length so thin washer will fit under small clip. Sometimes you have to place a thin shim washer under the small bushing to correct excessive axiel play in shaft movement. Their are many tricks most newbies don't even know about on these pancake distributors. Bubber is about the best you can get on these.I have all the small parts on these needed but have stopped rebuilding them,just sell small parts and the knowledge of how to use them. If I can be of any help email me. Not sure if I'm still getting PM,s from anybody,havent got any for weeks from anybody. ken ct. igadore@sbcglobal.net
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| Hrussell8750 | -- 01-24-2018 @ 12:24 PM |
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Do not use Bubba's to rebuild anything, his work is questionable, to compensate for a loose fitting (New) rotor, he put punch marks on a brand new distributor shaft to make rotor fit tighter on the shaft, rather than replace the bad rotor. I got rebuilt distributor back and had same problems it was sent to Bubba for. I found that after a lot of research and trial and error, my problem was first generation rotor and caps from china, they do not fit tight at all, or work correctly. This problem was solved by finding NOS rotors and caps, installed them and my spark problem and starting problem was solved, I will not use anything but NOS parts again. Thank You, Harry Russell
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