| shogun1940 | -- 09-04-2017 @ 9:31 AM |
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What year did ford start using black electric PLASTIC tape.. harness on ebay supposed to be nos for a 48
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| trjford8 | -- 09-04-2017 @ 10:08 AM |
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I don't recall seeing the black plastic loom material until the mid 50's. I suspect the seller is selling a NORS loom made by an aftermarket company. I have never seen the black plastic loom material on a 1948 car.
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| len47merc | -- 09-04-2017 @ 10:24 AM |
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trjford8 is correct. No ORIGINAL/NOS '46-'48 loom/harness covering materials were black electric plastic tape. Steve
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| sarahcecelia | -- 09-04-2017 @ 12:16 PM |
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Right on!!! Regards, Steve Lee
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| sarahcecelia | -- 09-04-2017 @ 12:19 PM |
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I think before the 50's they may have used black cloth tape, but not plastic.I remember the cloth variety when I was in my teens.I'm 80+6 months now. Regards, Steve Lee This message was edited by sarahcecelia on 9-4-17 @ 12:20 PM
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| Sal | -- 09-04-2017 @ 1:53 PM |
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Part of the '48 Ford wire harness is wrapped with black electrical tape. The rest is a cloth cover. I've got it like that on my Dearborn '48 Ford and I've just installed a Tyree Harris reproduction one on a '48 Ford station wagon. It's wrapped the same way.
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| len47merc | -- 09-04-2017 @ 3:54 PM |
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SAL - please advise what portion of a '48 Ford wiring harness is/are technically correct to be wrapped with black electrical tape. If you have and can provide documentation from trusted, credible and hopefully EFV8 sources that validate the same it would be helpful for us to have that information as well. Other than the black plastic shielding used over the fabric insulation on parking light wiring as it passes through the radiator wall I have not seen any black electrical tape or non-fabric insulating materials on any '46-'48 ORIGINAL or NOS wiring harnesses/looms, so this is news to me. The only plastic/rubber insulating material I've encountered on these three years is on terminals to seal the ends of the cloth insulation. Most if not all of the modern, newly fabricated wiring harnesses for these years from the common sources, that I have personally come across and/or worked with, do exhibit some degree of electrical tape use, particularly for the cowl/under dash to engine wiring harness, but IMHO this is not an endorsement of originality/NOS as much as it is a statement of modern manufacturing processes. I have been told the same by representatives from DC & Drake, but do not have any documentation to confirm this, only personal experience with these years. I am not a trained EFV8 judge or technical adviser. I do spend most if not all my time on Rouge Class/originality issues for these three years and can only speak to my experience with my '47 and the dozens of '46-'48 Rouge Class and known originals I've personally reviewed, as well as my somewhat modest resource library. Trying to learn something here and ensure I provide as accurate information as possible on this Forum, so I may need to correct my earlier comment if appropriate. Thanks in advance - Steve
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| Drbrown | -- 09-04-2017 @ 9:25 PM |
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My '47 came with a generic repro wiring harness that used black vinyl tape to hold the main parts of the harness together. It was so poorly laid-out that I re-did the system. There appears to be mention here of "black cloth tape" for electrical wiring. In the 1930 and 1940's my dad was an electrical engineer for the (then ) "Bell System" and later the New York Telephone company after their anti-trust fed break-up. They used what was called "friction tape" which was a black sticky cloth tape ..... still made. After application of the cloth tape, it often was usually covered with a black vinyl electrical tape to better water-proof it. When field applied, the combination of the two tapes resulted in a thicker better insulated wire connection. This message was edited by Drbrown on 9-4-17 @ 9:28 PM
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| len47merc | -- 09-05-2017 @ 5:51 AM |
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Still looking for a confirmation/definitive answer to shogun1940's original question in this discussion thread. Steve
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| TomO | -- 09-05-2017 @ 7:04 AM |
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I don't know the year that Ford started using the tape wrapped harnesses, but my 53 Lincoln has them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1948-FORD-CAR-WIRING-HARNESS-/292173867359?epid=8004724765&hash=item4406eb695f:g:oYwAAOSw6YtZXYSl&vxp=mtr This is a replacement harness from the 1950's and may not be what was originally installed in a 1948 car. Replacement parts were usually made using the current manufacturing practices. Tom
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| len47merc | -- 09-05-2017 @ 7:34 AM |
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Ok - to try to answer shogun1940's question with DATA only, no documentation yet, I spoke with Tyree Harris, Dennis Carpenter and Narraganset, the latter with whom I have experience with on multiple '46-'48 wiring harnesses, and further I investigated my car, multiple others and my photos from multiple EFV8 and AACA meets. Bottom line: Tyree Harris - uses black plastic tape on the post-'41 model years based solely on a representative example of a wiring harness that was verbally represented to them to be NOS/original. No documentation exists to support the black plastic tape - only the non-'certified' example. They can manufacture them with the braided-fabric binding if one requests and stand to change their manufacturing process to the braided-fabric with appropriate documentation. Dennis Carpenter - no idea on what basis their product is manufactured using black electrical tape binding, though one individual indicated their original NOS example could easily have been from the '50s produced using the then current manufacturing processes. Narragansett - use (and have always used) only braided-fabric binding on the '46-'48 model years and have documentation and 'certified' NOS originals to support the same. To answer shogun1940's question Narragansett indicates they use braided-fabric binding on Fords up to and including ~1954 model years. I did not request they go out to their stock and physically confirm this as they were very generous with their time in fleshing this out with me. Narragansett indicated their research and NOS samples indicate Ford initiated the use of the extruded wiring processes with the '55 model year and their wiring harnesses are bound with black plastic tape beginning with that year. I have a known NOS wiring harness in hand for a '46-'48 Ford/Mercury which is fully braided-fabric bound. I own a 'certified' Rouge Class Medallion Award winning '47 that has a fully braided-fabric bound harness. I spoke with 4 colleagues with original '46s (2), a '47 and a '48 - all have braided-fabric bound wiring harnesses. Lastly, I reviewed over 2 dozen photos I have taken of ORIGINAL '46-48 engine compartments from multiple EFV8 and AACA meets and find no examples of black plastic tape on any. Conversely, on my photos of fully RESTORED '46-48s approximately half of my photos show evidence of electrical tape binding. Of the few photos I have of restored Dearborn cars some have tape, others fabric. Note that the 'Dearborn' classification does not in all cases, and in fact in only a few very rare cases, equate to originality perfection, only that a car meets the minimum criteria for that classification (which in and of itself is a very high standard). IMHO shogun1940, the harness on ebay 'supposed to be nos for a 48' may in fact be NOS made sometime in the '50s or '60s but it is not 'original'. I stand on the data above in support of this opinion. Clearly EFV8 judges may have accepted, or conversely issued point deductions for (that did not reduce the final scoring total below the Dearborn 950 point threshold), the black plastic tape bound harnesses. Again, IMHO, if you are in pursuit of true originality and are looking to avoid any possible point deduction by a knowing, informed judge, you cannot go wrong with a braided-fabric bound harness. And to answer your specific question with complete authority, suggest you contact the appropriate EFV8 technical advisor on the specific year Ford started using black electric PLASTIC tape if the above DATA does not give you adequate comfort. Hope this helps - EDIT - spoke with the AACA resource library and they indicated this likely to have been too 'subtle' a (running) change to even warrant documentation in Evolutionary Change documents even if black plastic electrical tape was ever used with braided-fabric insulation. They further went on to say it is 'highly unlikely' Ford would have used black electrical tape binding in original manufacturing, particularly with braided-fabric harnesses, until at minimum the mid-'50s with the implementation of extruded insulation. Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 9-5-17 @ 9:03 AM
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| trjford8 | -- 09-06-2017 @ 7:27 AM |
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In my ramblings through swap meets I recall wiring harnesses being sold as NOS that were produced by an aftermarket company called "Wirey Joe". They came with a black cloth cover and there was some black plastic tape on certain parts of the harness. It's also possible that Ford may have sold replacement harnesses for the early cars that may have been manufactured (outsourced) by companies that made them with more modern materials. It all comes back to the fact that when the 48 cars came off the assembly line in 1948 there was no plastic wrap on the harness. Rouge cars are the best evidence of that fact.
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| Sal | -- 09-06-2017 @ 5:25 PM |
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My '48 Ford was purchased new from a Ford dealer by my late father. Since I was a young child my dad was always teaching me about the car I always remember part of the wiring harness having black tape from the cowl area towards the head lights, the horn wire connection and the engine.
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| shogun1940 | -- 09-07-2017 @ 4:59 PM |
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Well I want to thank every one for there info, especially Len 47 merc. I have a 48 coupe that i am trying to sell but it needs wiring, do i spend 300 on a harness that is not stock. Thanks again
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| kubes40 | -- 09-07-2017 @ 5:15 PM |
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Steve (Lenmerc47) you nailed this one to the proverbial "t". Thanks! Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| TomO | -- 09-08-2017 @ 7:04 AM |
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shogun1940, I would repair the wiring so that the car will run and then just advertise the car for sale and let people know that the wiring is deteriorated. The purchaser may not want to restore the car back to original and any money spent on a harness, may be thrown in the junk pile. Tom
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