| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-23-2017 @ 3:50 PM |
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Hello, I am scr*w*d. The "hidden" bolt on my 37 85HP water pump is not budging. I applied WD40, heated it up and firmly planted a 7/16 six sided socket on it. The bolt does not loosen up. The socket just slips and starts to round off the head. Help! Any suggestions? Certainly I am not the first to run into this problem. Personally, I think this bolt arrangement was a very poor design from Mr. Ford. Thanks, gregg
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| MG | -- 08-23-2017 @ 4:07 PM |
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Is the engine out of the car? With all the other bolts removed, try to use the pump as a lever - that is, swivel the pump using that stuck bolt as a pivot point. Use a pry bar...
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| 4dFordSC | -- 08-23-2017 @ 4:19 PM |
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When you finally get it out, replace it with a stainless steel bolt.
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| MGG | -- 08-23-2017 @ 6:08 PM |
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My pumps are held in by 9/16 inch headed bolts. I used a metric 14mm six-sided impact socket because it fits more snuggly on the 9/16 head. Try some real penetrating oil for a few days instead of the WD-40. It worked for me. This message was edited by MGG on 8-23-17 @ 8:31 PM
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-23-2017 @ 6:37 PM |
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The engine is in the car. I have removed the other bolts and knocked it loose from the engine. It does swivel just a bit. Haven't tried prying on it and swiveling. Will also get the socket on the bolt and try it all together. Stainless steel replacement will be good. Maybe a grade 8 bolt is also more resistant to corrosion and will hold its bolt head a bit better??? Bolt head sizes are all over the map on this. The passenger side pump had two 9/16 bolts, one 1/2 inch on the outside and the hidden bolt was 1/2. The driver's side pump had three 9/16 bolts on the outside. The hidden bolt may have originally been 1/2 but a 1/2 socket freely spun around it. The 7/16 grabbed the bolt pretty good but it still slipped. I tried a 3/8 socket but it was way too small. Will see what metric sockets I have. That would be cool if one of them fits really tight. If none of this works, I guess I will drill out the existing bolt head, enough to get the pump off and then try some vise grips or ??. If still no luck, will drill the d@mn thing out very carefully to and see what is left. Worst case, will have to drill it out more and tap it to the next larger size. What a pain... but no one said this was going to be easy...thus goes the restoration process. hmm, also thought about welding a fresh bolt head to the stub somehow and then try backing it out, will see. Thanks guys, gregg
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| fordv8j | -- 08-23-2017 @ 7:01 PM |
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brake fluid is good to loosen a stuck bolt
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| MGG | -- 08-23-2017 @ 8:37 PM |
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I did not use stainless steel bolts because some of them tend to stretch. I went with a grade 8 bolt and placed Never-Sieze on the threads.
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| alanwoodieman | -- 08-24-2017 @ 5:35 AM |
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go to the local tool store and buy a set of sockets with the reverse twist-designed to catch on rusty bolt heads-bough my set at sears years ago--great tool to have
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-24-2017 @ 7:44 AM |
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Good stuff, Thanks guys, gregg
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| TomO | -- 08-24-2017 @ 7:52 AM |
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An impact wrench works better on rusty bolts than a regular socket and breaker bar. The hammer effect helps to break loose the rust and free the bolt. You can use the impact wrench with good quality sockets, but be sure to wear safety glasses when you do and use short bursts of the tool. Tom
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| Bill E Bob | -- 08-24-2017 @ 10:32 AM |
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To add to TomO's suggestion, you can "turn down" the amount of impact and let it "rattle" the bolt a bit to loosen it before full impact power is applied. This can help avoid breaking the bolt.
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-24-2017 @ 11:21 AM |
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Nice. I happen to have an air impact wrench, will give it a try and report back, fingers and toes are crossed. Thanks, gregg
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| supereal | -- 08-24-2017 @ 2:28 PM |
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If a properly sized six point socket doesn't move the bolt with an impact wrench, it is likely only heat will help. At our shop we remove stuck exhaust manifold bolts and head studs by welding a bolt to the stud. The heat almost always loosens the bolt so it can be turned out.
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-25-2017 @ 12:09 PM |
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Update: Success! I was able to remove the hidden bolt without too much hassle. I sprayed penetrating oil on it and soaked overnight. Found a 10mm socket that fit snuggly over what was left of the bolt head. I pounded it on pretty good, gave it a couple extra slugs, just cuz. It broke loose a bit, then I worked it back and forth a small nudge at a time. I finally got brave and kept loosening it and Voila! In the attached pic you can see the problem bolt on the left, while the other bolt is the one from the other water pump that came out pretty easy. Thanks to all for the helpful ideas. gregg
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| woodiewagon46 | -- 08-25-2017 @ 12:45 PM |
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As MGG suggests, coat the new bolts and the bore with Never Seize, even if you decide to go with stainless steel.
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| 51f1 | -- 08-27-2017 @ 9:24 AM |
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Stainless bolts work harden when they are being formed. Consequently, they are brittle and will break easily. Stainless bolts used with stainless nuts tend to gall, so, if you use stainless steel bolts, always use anti-seize. Never use stainless bolts if safety is a consideration (in your brakes for example). Richard
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-27-2017 @ 10:07 AM |
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Never knew that about stainless...now I know! I have some grade 8 bolts that are the correct length, will use those along with some Never Seize. Thanks folks, gregg
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| 56MarkII | -- 08-27-2017 @ 5:21 PM |
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I would use a stainless in this case after cleaning out the threads in the block with a tap to clean out the rust. As for the strength and grade you should be able to get a higher grade bolt regardless but at the same time if you torque it to a proper torque breakage shouldn't be a problem. Look at your old bolts and it wouldn't surprise me if they were grade two or three to begin with. The grade doesn't reflect on the rust it would be the plating on the bolt and another thing to keep in mind is don't use straight water or old coolant! Coolant becomes acidic after a number of years and promotes rusting. Ever notice how your rad cap starts getting corrosion on it with ancient coolant. Never seize works but even a sealant on the threads works as well. Ever work on an engine that didn't have blind holes for the head bolts?? If they go into the cooling system sealant such as gasket sh*llac is recommended on these threads to prevent coolant from weeping past the bolt into the crankcase or else ware.
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-27-2017 @ 9:49 PM |
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Thanks for the info/advice. I already buttoned it up with the grade 8 bolts. I need to research what type of plating they have and how rust resistant it is. I suppose I could replace them one at a time with stainless. Don't want to disturb the gasket sealing interfaces. I did chase all the threaded holes with a 3/8 tap and got lots of junk out of the hole. Then cleaned out the holes and followed up with compressed air. Every thing went back together very well. I replaced the front motor mounts also. Don't know what the torque specs are, so just snugged them down pretty good. After driving it a bit I will check the mount bolts again to see if things have settled any. Hope to get it on the road in a couple days....finally. Thanks all, gregg
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| mrtexas | -- 08-28-2017 @ 7:39 AM |
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Don't drill out. Weld a washer and then a nut on the washer. The heat from the welding will loosen it. Worked on my 37 engine and many other broken bolts.
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-28-2017 @ 8:14 AM |
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Luckily I didn't have to exercise that option. The bolt broke loose after pounding on a 10mm socket and ratcheting it off. Thanks, gregg
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| 56MarkII | -- 08-28-2017 @ 9:33 AM |
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Yes my thoughts as well! I usually weld a nut as well and not only does it break the rust loose from the heat the heat also shrinks the bolt. If the bolt breaks too far down I'm forced to drill but it must be centered. If the bolt is big enough and I'm off center I use a very small carbide burr on an air tool and insert this grinder in the drill hole to center it then I use progressively larger bits until the bolt is thin enough to run a tap in the hole and this litterly cuts the metal out of the threads saving the hole. On cylinder heads such as FE Fords such as 332,352, 390 the bottom of the exhaust ports hang in mid air exposing the ends of the protruding bolts to severe corrosion and rust making broken studs a usual result. I carefully heat the bottom of the port until it starts to glow and stick a cheap wrench on the head of the bolt or nut and break it loose. I then keep twisting back and forth until it cools down and while I twist back and forth I spray penetrating oil into the threads. If the stud is very good I heat the nut till orange and slap the wrench on and break it loose with the same procedure as removing the stud. Try removing these bolts if they are broken with the engine or head still in the car or truck compared to using a very small acetylene torch and being able to break these problem bolts loose instead of breaking them off. Heat is great but do it slowly and carefully so you don't cause a crack. Never mind about the plating etc., just be concerned about your coolant and if you have rusty coolant you need a flush! Bad coolant or straight water causes rust. After all why are some cooling systems clear and clean and why are others brown and filled with rust?? No rust in the coolant, no rusty bolts, block and frost plugs. Rust is like cancer, it never stops til you get rid of it. I have had my Mercury for over thirty years and had to rebuild my pumps a couple of times and bolts were never a problem and I just worried about them being the correct length. Yes my coolant is clear and clean, it's old now so I'm going to dump it and replace it because my cap is getting white corrosion on it. It's past due.
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