| sarahcecelia | -- 08-17-2017 @ 1:13 PM |
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Why do wheel cylinders rust and pit? Regular brake fluid is -alchohol and glycerine. alchohol is the "vehicle" and glycerine is the "lubricant." How many "top" mechanics with all those patches on their sleeve know this? Very,very, few!Just ask them.They'll say,"Duh? "Alchohol absorbs moisture(H2o), and that causes the rust and pitting. Flush your system thoroughly with silicone brake fluid.Install silicone brake fluid, and bleed the sustem. You'll get a harder pedal, and your cylinders will last for a very long time. All new cars for the last few years use it, why don't you? This message was edited by sarahcecelia on 8-18-17 @ 5:25 AM
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| Stroker | -- 08-17-2017 @ 4:08 PM |
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The "downside" of course is that silicone brake fluid is not as good a lubricant as the old glycerin stuff. There will be some wear associated on the neoprene cylinder cups with it, and in addition, because of the dissolved air, silicone fluids are up to three times more compressible than glycerin-based fluids. This can contribute to a slightly spongy feeling brake pedal/ This is why silicone fluids are not used in race cars as a spongy pedal makes it difficult to modulate the brake pressure under racing conditions." Would I use it? , OF COURSE, as it helps preserve our "antique" systems.
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| sarahcecelia | -- 08-17-2017 @ 8:36 PM |
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Your statement about a spongy pedal is wrong, it gives you a firmer pedal. Who fed you this line? Also, silicone is an excellent lubricant. I guess all the manufacturers aren't too smart for using silicone brake fluid. Let me ask you; what experience do you have as an auto mechanic? when you can match mine of 62 years, then I'll listen to you. Did you know what brake fluid of the past was made of before I told you? I'll bet my last dollar that you didn't!!! Are a starter and a generator the same except that on one the insulators on the commutator are undercut? Which one is? Do you know how to use a growler to check an armature for bad windings? Can you tell me how can you check a generator to see if it works after you rebuild it, before you install it, without using anything but a battery and jumper cables? Do you know why dwell is important and what it denotes? Do you know what the ratio of the cam to the crank is? Do you know what the minimum clearance is on main bearings?I know all this and a lot more. Regards, Steve Lee This message was edited by sarahcecelia on 8-18-17 @ 5:25 AM
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| TomO | -- 08-18-2017 @ 7:16 AM |
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Mr. Lee, This site has been one where the contributors treat every one as a gentleman. If you want to start fights and arguments, please find a site that will accommodate you. Stroker has been a contributor to this site for several years and his wisdom and experience have helped more members that I can count. His answer to your post corrected some of your incorrect information. Your post is only partially correct. Dot 3 fluid will attract water, after that it is incorrect. Tom
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| DD931 | -- 08-18-2017 @ 8:15 AM |
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Well stated, Tom!!
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| kubes40 | -- 08-18-2017 @ 8:46 AM |
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TomO, I agree with your previous post. I, like you, found Steve Lee's post a bit disturbing. Steve, if you're "listening", please, clean up your act. This site has thankfully remained by and large a very friendly and helpful site. And Steve, sixty-two years of experience does not necessarily mean they were sixty-two years without mistakes. Tom, I know you have a numerous years of hands on experience as do I. My experience has been that silicone based brake fluid does in fact offer a softer pedal than glycerin based fluids. Mike "Kube" Kubarth This message was edited by kubes40 on 8-18-17 @ 2:26 PM
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| 46coupe | -- 08-18-2017 @ 11:25 AM |
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I have a wheel cylinder/brake issue. Possibly you all will help me here instead of starting a new thread. The history is: 46 Super Deluxe coupe, rebuilt/ and honed all wheel cylinders, installed new brake shoes, rebuilt master cylinder, replaced front brake hoses as we found the previous ones that looked new but were actually collapsing and locking the wheels. Yesterday I had a weird noise coming from the right rear wheel. Luckily I was only 100 yds from my favorite garage and pulled in to see if I could get the car on the lift. We did and a E-brake retainer fastener had failed and part of the linkage was in the drum. That we fixed. While inspecting the other wheels we found that some were locked up and some were not. Had a devil of a time getting the car in the shop and on the lift. We closed the brake shoes as far as we could and the wheels barely turned. The drums and back plates were not hot. When we finally got the drum off the right front, the left front spun freely. We put the drum back on and could hardly turn the left or right front. We had found fluid in the front cup on the right cylinder. Does the fluid some how equalize in the system? Could this be causing the brake shoes to over tighten and then loosen? I've ordered new front cylinders and will install the old shoes on the front as we think we found a hump in the center of the new shoes. Any Ideas??
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| 46coupe | -- 08-18-2017 @ 11:31 AM |
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I have a wheel cylinder/brake issue. Possibly you all will help me here instead of starting a new thread. The history is: 46 Super Deluxe coupe, rebuilt/ and honed all wheel cylinders, installed new brake shoes, rebuilt master cylinder, replaced front brake hoses as we found the previous ones that looked new but were actually collapsing and locking the wheels. Yesterday I had a weird noise coming from the right rear wheel. Luckily I was only 100 yds from my favorite garage and pulled in to see if I could get the car on the lift. We did and a E-brake retainer fastener had failed and part of the linkage was in the drum. That we fixed. While inspecting the other wheels we found that some were locked up and some were not. Had a devil of a time getting the car in the shop and on the lift. We closed the brake shoes as far as we could and the wheels barely turned. The drums and back plates were not hot. When we finally got the drum off the right front, the left front spun freely. We put the drum back on and could hardly turn the left or right front. We had found fluid in the front cup on the right cylinder. Does the fluid some how equalize in the system? Could this be causing the brake shoes to over tighten and then loosen? I've ordered new front cylinders and will install the old shoes on the front as we think we found a hump in the center of the new shoes. Any Ideas?? By the way, I agree with Tom. I'm a novice compared to most of you all and appreciate all the help you all have/will give me. However, I've been on forums that had this issue and eventually that ended up being all it was- people being sarcastic and wasting time convincing everyone how right they were. Thanks for the comments Tom. Hopefully it ends there.
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| cliftford | -- 08-18-2017 @ 2:19 PM |
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Given that information, I would suspect a problem with the master cylinder not releasing pressure fully.
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| fla48 | -- 08-18-2017 @ 7:13 PM |
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Thanks Tom.
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| 46coupe | -- 08-19-2017 @ 3:28 AM |
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Thanks Cliftford, that's a part I had not considered as the rod seems to move its full distance. The cylinders have been shipped. I hope to have them installed by Wed. I'll let you and everyone know what happens. I could be ordering a new master cylinder if the tests fail.
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| sarahcecelia | -- 08-19-2017 @ 6:09 AM |
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I didn't mean to argue, I was just trying to tell people that I have a vast experience in auto mechanics. I have had a few people that actually told me that they appreciate my knowledge and comments, but your absolutely right Tom, and I apologise to you, and all. I just get annoyed when I have so much background and knowledge, and persons argue with what I tell them. Most people that ask questions on the forum, know very little about the mechanics of the automobiles that they are working on, and that's why they ask on the forum. I admit that I have asked a few, but they were to save me wasting my time and aggrevation ; such as when I asked where the coil resistor was located, how to put the convertible top down, and finding out why my volt meter wasn't showing in the green; which I fixed myself by changing the gauge.In that instance, I asked a question, even when I had an idea of the "fix", to get other opinions, which to me is a smart thing to do. Again, I aplogise to all, and will "Hold it down" in the future!" Regards, Steve Lee
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| TomO | -- 08-19-2017 @ 7:41 AM |
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Steve Lee, thank you for understanding my post. 46Coupe, your problem sound like you may not have enough brake pedal free play. The master cylinder push rod must be free of pressure when the pedal is released. Please start another thread if you are still having problems. Tom
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| sarahcecelia | -- 08-19-2017 @ 6:00 PM |
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A principal of physics that I learned in my junior year in High School in 1954: "When pressure is applied to a liquid in an enclosure, that pressure will be equal at all points. Thus when you put pressure on the brake fluid with the master cylinder, the pressure is equal at all four wheels, Even tho the lines are different lengths. Regards, Steve Lee
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| sarahcecelia | -- 08-19-2017 @ 6:06 PM |
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Tom may be right on track. Check the "free play" on the master cylinder.You only need a little, but if there is none, the pressure will build to the point that the brakes will actually "lock up." Regards, Steve Lee
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| 46coupe | -- 08-20-2017 @ 4:21 AM |
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Thanks everyone. I will check the master cylinder free play, as well, and will let you all know via a new thread what is discovered.
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| sarahcecelia | -- 08-21-2017 @ 12:02 PM |
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Your right Mike. The original info given when silicone fluid first came out, was that it gave a firmer pedal; now they changed that and say it is a"little spongier." I just believed their original statements. I researched it the other day, after you said it was "spongier," and saw that now they say, "spongier.!!"Damned if you do, and d*mn*d if you don't!! Regards, Steve Lee
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