| 1937sedandelivery | -- 06-07-2017 @ 3:15 PM |
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Hello, For the first time, I started up my recently acquired 37 Fordor V8 (85 HP) and it leaks oil like crazy, from a hole in the bottom of the pan, close to the drain plug. BTW, the hole has a big cotter pin in it, what is that for? Anyway, the oil leak is roughly one drop every couple of seconds when the engine is running. Pretty sure it isn't tranny fluid. Unless someone can advise otherwise, I plan to remove the oil pan to see what is going on. I have read several threads about removing the oil pan. My take away is: 1)crank the engine until the front crank counterweight is out of the way 2)perhaps undo the front motor mounts and lift the engine a couple inches 3) remove the starter My question is: besides removing the obvious bolts that hold the pan onto the bottom of the engine, it looks like I need to also remove the 8 bolts (3/8-16 x 1") that hold the tranny to the pan. Will the tranny stay in place when I do this??? or does it need to be propped up? Thanks for any/all help, this is my first experience working on Ford V8's. Gregg
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| carcrazy | -- 06-07-2017 @ 7:49 PM |
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The best thing to do is pull the engine out of the car so you can get full and easy access to fix the oil leak problem. The problem you describe with oil dripping out of the bottom of the clutch housing is indicative of oil leaking past the rear main bearing of the engine. These early engines do not feature a rear main bearing oil seal as is used on the more modern engines but instead rely on either a labyrinth or reverse helical grove system to resist the flow of oil from the rear of the crankshaft. This type of system will allow oil to leak past the rear main bearing and into the clutch housing chamber if any of the following is present: excessive wear of the rear main bearing, overfill of the oil in crankcase - more than 5 quarts, car parked on an uphill grade, and installation of a high volume oil pump. If and when you ever overhaul this engine, make sure to have the original oil pump rebuilt to original 50 PSI stock specs. - do not install the later 80 PSI oil pump. If you use the later 80 PSI oil pump leaks will be present from the rear main bearing!
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| CharlieStephens | -- 06-07-2017 @ 8:14 PM |
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Car crazy covered it pretty well. The part you are looking at is not the oil pan but a sheet metal flywheel cover that is welded to the back of the pan. When the oil leaks out the rear main it goes into this area behind the pan and then out the hole. There is a cotter key in the hole to keep it from getting clogged up. Charlie Stephens
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 06-07-2017 @ 9:27 PM |
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CarCrazy and Charlie, Thanks for steering me to the appropriate solution, though removing the engine is not what I was hoping for. It will give me the opportunity to clean everything up. I swear this is the original engine and never was cleaned before. It is caked with oodles of crud and grime. I couldn't even see most of the oil pan bolt heads. From what I can tell, there are four motor mounts, two in front and two in the rear. Once these are removed, along with the rear drive shaft tube, the motor can be pulled? Of course, the wiring, gas line, linkages, etc. must be removed too. Should the engine be pulled with the tranny attached? So, this draws one more question...when I figure out how to unbolt the drive shaft tube, is there anything special I need to be aware of? Just unbolt it and let it hang? Again, this is completely new territory for me. Sorry for all the questions, someday I will be able to apply this work to my son's car which is an original barn find 37 Tudor. Thanks folks, Gregg
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 06-07-2017 @ 9:27 PM |
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CarCrazy and Charlie, Thanks for steering me to the appropriate solution, though removing the engine is not what I was hoping for. It will give me the opportunity to clean everything up. I swear this is the original engine and never was cleaned before. It is caked with oodles of crud and grime. I couldn't even see most of the oil pan bolt heads. From what I can tell, there are four motor mounts, two in front and two in the rear. Once these are removed, along with the rear drive shaft tube, the motor can be pulled? Of course, the wiring, gas line, linkages, etc. must be removed too. Should the engine be pulled with the tranny attached? So, this draws one more question...when I figure out how to unbolt the drive shaft tube, is there anything special I need to be aware of? Just unbolt it and let it hang? Again, this is completely new territory for me. Sorry for all the questions, someday I will be able to apply this work to my son's car which is an original barn find 37 Tudor. Thanks folks, Gregg This message was edited by 1937sedandelivery on 6-7-17 @ 9:42 PM
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| CharlieStephens | -- 06-07-2017 @ 9:58 PM |
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Do you have a copy of the Early Ford V8 Club's book on the '37 (https://www.earlyfordv8.org/Shop.cfm?id=59&pid=2)? Charlie Stephens
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| 39 Ken | -- 06-08-2017 @ 4:02 AM |
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Since you are new to this car I would suggest you do the easiest things first. How much oil is in the engine now? I have found that 5 qts. of oil will give you the symptoms that you are seeing. As Charlie mentioned, 5 qts, parking on a hill, etc. can add to the problem. Change your oil and add only 4 qts. then drive it to see if you still have the leaking problem. I use a good grade 20-50 weight oil. Drive it long enough to "leak out" any residual oil that may remain in the area of the cotter key. Ken
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| len47merc | -- 06-08-2017 @ 5:15 AM |
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1937sedandelivery - first of all, you've been given great advice here from all. Not taking exception here but simply adding-to/dove-tailing with what has already been said (and no need to respond here - just food for thought), even if you pull the engine and change the rear seal, you in all likelihood, most probabilities, without-a-doubt & GUARANTEED will still have some form of a leak from this area. I suspect others of us on this Forum are routinely driving cars with leaks from this area equal to or even in excess of yours. Others can chime in and likely will, but please do not expect that changing your rear seal will solve your entire oil leak from the area you are describing or I assure you that you will be sorely disappointed. Flatheads simply leak from this area - it is one of their attributes. Given Charlie Stephens's accurate description of the purpose of the cotter pin in the bottom of the bell housing - you have to question why Ford would put a cotter pin there in the first place in a brand new engine if they did not expect it to be needed for some purpose, like, say, keeping the hole clear to allow the leaking oil out - ? If your clutch is acceptable, my recommendation is to just purchase an oil drip pan and keep it under the engine for perpetuity (you'll need it whether you change the rear seal or not) and focus on more critical issues if any, and as well develop a more comprehensive set of items to address while the engine is out if you do ultimately decide to pull it. Take 39 Ken's advice at minimum short-term and see if you can minimize your current leak, but remember it will leak some amount of oil no matter what you do. Buy the 'book' - you'll be very glad you did! Lastly, before you start wrenching (here comes the len47merc broken record) do you have a long-term goal in mind for your car? Specifically have you decided to preserve it, restore it, show it and submit it for judging as an original or as a restoration, simply drive it and never show it, keep it for your lifetime and not worry about selling it short-term, etc. Strongly suggest you have that goal/objective set before you start the wrenching process as, for example, simply over-cleaning the engine and/or engine compartment may affect a judge's willingness to give an award for running-gear originality as it may be considered 'over-restored'. Conversely, should restoration be in your mind down the road when pulling the engine you will encounter dozens of issues to consider that may affect you down the road such as the correct fasteners (assuming your engine is the original as you say you should be very careful about every nut, bolt, screw, clamp, etc., as to where each goes and ensure none are lost/mixed-up during the process), paint colors, what should be painted and what shouldn't, fastener finishes, etc., etc.. If you choose to sell it later what might a prospective buyer be looking for and what level of expertise may they have in knowing what to look for in an original or restoration? Setting a clear goal/objective now - and you can take this to the bank - will save you extraordinary amounts of $$$'s and headaches down the road. If you can live with it for a while and still enjoy the car, again, I'd follow 39 Ken's advice. 'Patience is a virtue' - If you just can't live with it, and it's understandable that may be the case, then give adequate consideration to what your goals for the car are down the road before you start the project. Fwiw - Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 6-8-17 @ 6:11 AM
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| zeke3 | -- 06-08-2017 @ 7:13 AM |
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If you remove the oil pan, be sure to check the four core plugs, where the pan rail has a bulges, for softness or leakage. They probably need replaced and now would be the time to do it. Zeke
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| TomO | -- 06-08-2017 @ 7:49 AM |
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PepBoys sell a mat that is approximately 2' by 4' that absorbs the oil drips. Buy 2 and and use 1 for the front of the car and one for the rear of the car. They will last quite a while and keep your garage floor clean. Ford specified 5 quarts of oil for your car and reducing the fill to 4 quarts will not solve the drip. The only way to solve the drip is to do an engine overhaul and hope that the rear splash seal directs the oil back into the pan. Len47merc gave you good advice, drive the car for a while and decide what your plans for the car are. When you have made up your mind and have the funds available, start making the car the way that you want it. Tom
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 06-08-2017 @ 8:44 AM |
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Yes I do, but didn't pull it out, my bad. I see some helpful pics in the Chassis section. Thanks, Gregg
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 06-08-2017 @ 8:50 AM |
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Hi Ken, Aha, I just checked the oil. It is above the full mark. I added5 qts. when refilling all the fluids. You may have just saved me a tremendous amount of time and agony, not to mention dollars!!! I will drive it around the block for awhile, until the oil level goes down below the mark. If this fixes it I owe you a beer! Thanks, Gregg
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 06-08-2017 @ 9:20 AM |
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Hey Steve, I appreciate all the thoughts, suggestions and advice. I try to keep an open mind, especially when delving into the unknown. Do I have a plan? Well, kinda. Firstly, I want to get it running and enjoy it as soon as possible. No plan for long distance driving, but lots of around town trips will be fun. No plans to show it for judging awards, BUT, I do want to keep it bone stock. I order lots of parts from Roy N., just placed an order this morning. I probably already crossed the bridge regarding cleanliness. The car had juice brakes and just finished restoring it to mechanical. Bought some old "dirty" backing plates and quickly blasted them and painted gloss black. I like things clean when working on them and re-installing. My motto (for now) is to clean and paint (if appropriate) everything I touch on the car. The brake springs are all NOS and even found some NOS brake cables. Adjustment is per the 37/38 Engine & Chassis Repair Manual. I riveted new woven shoe linings onto some original shoes that came with the backing plates. So, the brakes are all done. I must say that quite a bit of pedal pressure is required to stop the car, ugh. Back to the leak...I am ok living with a reasonably small leak and using a drip pan. Long term plans, my car will outlive me. I will never sell it. Hopefully the kids will follow suit. For now, I will drive it until something gives out, then fix it as necessary. My real (first) love is the 37 Sedan Delivery, it is in the shop (since Feb). Thanks for you help, Gregg
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 06-08-2017 @ 9:22 AM |
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Hi Zeke, Not sure what the plugs are but will check them out...if I drop the pan. Thanks, Gregg
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| 1937sedandelivery | -- 06-08-2017 @ 9:27 AM |
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Hey Tom, Looks like I am resigned to accommodating an oil leak. Will check out the oil mat to keep the floor clean. Meantime, I plan to drive the car as much as possible. Forgot to say that the right side floor pan is rusted through pretty bad, will have to replace a section of it with some EMS sheet metal...the process begins. Thanks, Gregg
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