| Pair of 40's | -- 05-29-2017 @ 11:46 AM |
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I have a 40 pick up and just completed a complete engine and trans rebuild. New clutch and we machined the fly wheel. I get an awful shaking when I release the clutch in first gear from a dead stop. I had this problem before the rebuild but it is worse now. We installed new motor mounts. Engine runs great and trans shifts just fine, clutch engages properly. One thing that is missing are the two support rods that I believe tie the engine block to the frame. Will these rods help reduce the vibration? Thanks
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| keith oh | -- 05-29-2017 @ 4:43 PM |
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I think what you are describing is clutch chatter. It is usually caused by bad pressure plate or clutch plate or a combination of the two. Try slipping the clutch by pushing against solid object such as a tree. The rods you spoke of will help but not completely. It is a shame but you may have to replace the PP and clutch plate.
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| Stroker | -- 05-29-2017 @ 5:39 PM |
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Pair of 40's: MUCH has been written on this forum over the years regarding clutch chatter. I can't begin to cover it all, but the engine to frame "rods" never did what they were "supposed to do" as they don't control the cyclic torque phenomena we call "chatter". The fundamental problem is compounded with available modern clutch facing materials, (no asbestos allowed), the current disks aren't quite as "friendly" as they once were. Our 32-48 torque-tube drive-trains have no "flex" in them like the later hotchkiss (49-53) drives do. So, what happens is that once a clutch grabs, it causes the engine to move to the limits afforded by the rubber engine mounts, which then "re-bound" and the cycle begins again. This cyclic "feed-back loop"can also affect the clutch linkage travel, which exacerbates the problem. Your 40's "blade and slot" clutch frame to clutch fork cross-rod isn't as badly affected by feed-back as the earlier lever systems were. So..."what to do"??? If keith oh's cure doesn't help, I'd suggest sending the pressure plate to Fort Wayne Clutch. Often, the problem is that the pressure-plate actuator fingers are un-evenly adjusted. Only a facility that has the proper fixtures and tooling can properly set-up a pressure plate. If the plate doesn't release EVENLY across it's diameter, you will get clutch chatter. Many 32-48's will ALWAYS HAVE a degree of clutch chatter. It's kind of an EV8 "tradition". I could always tell when someone who didn't "deal with it" drove my Ford. After I'd driven it a few days, it was gone. A lot of "dealing with it" is simply a matter of technique. Often it's most noticeable when backing up. Get in the habit of not letting the chatter CONTINUE, and "nipping it in the bud" by letting the clutch all the way out once it commences. This message was edited by Stroker on 5-29-17 @ 5:48 PM
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| TomO | -- 05-30-2017 @ 6:19 AM |
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You still need to check the motor mounts. len47merc found that all motor mounts are not equal. Some of them do not control the motor movements at all. Here is a link to the discussion about motor mounts and clutch chatter. Use it to check your new motor mounts. https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=10525&keywords=clutch Stroker is correct about the uneven engagement of the clutch. Besides the fingers not being adjusted correctly originally, the housing can be warped by incorrect install procedures. When you install or remove the pressure plate, you should put wedges between the fingers and the housing to release the pressure on the clutch disk. Once the bolts are tightened, you should remove the wedges and then place a straight edge across the pressure plate housing and check to see if the fingers are an equal distance from the straight edge. Tom
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| Pair of 40's | -- 05-30-2017 @ 6:23 AM |
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Thanks for your feed back I'm sure it makes little diff but the flaty is a late model 1950. It has the original 40 transmission and drive train. Closed drive shaft.
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| len47merc | -- 05-30-2017 @ 11:28 AM |
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Having experienced both sides of this 'vibration' / 'clutch chatter' equation - firstly from a new but bad quality clutch (which was resolved by advice from this Forum to go to Fort Wayne Clutch for a new PP & clutch plate) and then 2+ years later it reared its head again only to find (with advice from TomO) the bottom bushings on the motor mounts were so loose you could spin them easily with your fingers - that it's easy to think clutch first when the simple things/quick(er) fixes may be available. Read through the link TomO provided as well as this related discussion thread: https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=10545&keywords=tightness These two threads kind of got intertwined and you'll need both to get the full picture. Bottom line - check your engine mounts - FIRST - for tightness NOT by simply checking the top Marsden nut but by looking at the bottom bushing and ensuring it is properly compressed and slightly bulging. Also check it to see whether you can rotate it with your hand. If the bottom 'biscuit' is loose, snug it up - with washers if needed as noted in the referenced threads above - then check your clutch chatter. Hopefully that will fix your problem - please let us know how you come out and what you find. Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 5-30-17 @ 11:29 AM
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| Drbrown | -- 05-30-2017 @ 11:11 PM |
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As others above note, existing and new engine mounts can create vibration problem. On my '47, the existing mounts were extremely loose and spongy but produced no vibration problems. When I replaced them I then experienced vibration when under load. It went away shortly after driving the car a bit and has been fine ever since. You say you had vibration before the mounts were replaced and engine rebuilt so I'm thinking it is more likely clutch and/or flywheel related as others discuss here. Were the clutch and flywheel balanced together ? I have anti-chatter rods on my engine. The car has never been run without them so I can't attest to how much they may or may not help in controlling vibration due to clutch and drive-train rotational stresses. This message was edited by Drbrown on 5-30-17 @ 11:27 PM
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| TomO | -- 05-31-2017 @ 6:27 AM |
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You have added another variable with the 1950 engine. If you do not have the 8RT truck water pumps, I suggest that you change over to them and use the Bob Drake 1940 motor mounts. The 1950 motor mounts were designed for an open drive train and will cause chatter with the torque tube drive shaft. If you are still using the crank mounted fan, you will need a spacer and longer bolts to move the fan closer to the radiator. I would also have the fan and spacer dynamically balanced, if you experience engine vibration with the combination. Tom
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| Pair of 40's | -- 05-31-2017 @ 6:58 AM |
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Thank you to all for the good advice. We will check all these factors out. I did replace the existing front motor mount rubbers, I did not know there were different design mounts but I will investigate. I did purchase a new 10" clutch from Van Pelt and had the existing fly wheel machined. We did not have the PP and flywheel balanced together. I did have some chatter prior to the engine / trans rebuild. Chatter appears to be worse now than before. Russ
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| Pair of 40's | -- 05-31-2017 @ 7:21 AM |
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I have the 40 style motor mounts.
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