| DJ | -- 04-08-2017 @ 4:24 PM |
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Could use some guidance please. 51 Ford Custom, 6 volt, all stock. New owner. Problem - it freewheels all the time. Downshifting does not slow the car at all. I have read numerous Borg-Warner articles. First question, the overdrive relay pictured below. I believe it is a 12 volt, correct? Will it work for my 6 volt system? The 6 volt relay I believe has only 3 wires to connect; not the 4 this one has. I have wired it per the schematic. I have done the electrical checks and all are good. At the relay, I have power at the ignition, solenoid, TH SW connections and I have power to both ends of the fuse. Put a meter on fuse and checked good. When I ground the SOL/IGN terminals, I hear the Solenoid activate. I checked the solenoid and it is installed correctly. I put a new wiring harness on it. Hoping someone has the solution that doesn't include dropping the transmission. Lol
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| Kens 36 | -- 04-08-2017 @ 7:40 PM |
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DJ, Your relay might be 6-volt, but not from a Ford - possibly a Studebaker. It should still work OK. How do you have it wired? The wire to terminal #4 on the solenoid should be connected to the SOL terminal on your relay. The power goes to the terminal next to the fuse, the kickdown switch wire to the TH/SW terminal. If you ground the TH/SW terminal when power is on, you should hear the solenoid activate. Test driving with this terminal grounded to see if you transmission goes into overdrive (and does not freewheel). Ken
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| Drbrown | -- 04-08-2017 @ 9:18 PM |
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Also, be sure overdrive casing has a good ground connection to frame/body.
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| DJ | -- 04-09-2017 @ 3:07 AM |
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Thank you both, I feel like I'm so close! Ken, the wiring was part of my confusion. On this 4 terminal relay, the IGN terminal is at the end next to the SOL terminal. Heres what I have. I have the SOL and the TH/SW exactly as you indicate above. I have power to the fuse terminal, from the starter solenoid. For the IGN terminal, I have a wire running to the ignition switch. This was the diagram I was following. https://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/216321-1000-0@2x.jpg?rev=1 When I ground the TH/SW terminal I do hear the solenoid activate. I have it grounded and take it for a drive later. When I took the Solenoid off, I noticed there was not a gasket; metal to metal. I need a gasket there correct? The only wire I haven't replaced is the governor wire. That one seems a bit challenging to get too. This message was edited by DJ on 4-9-17 @ 10:47 AM
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| BUCKAWHO | -- 04-09-2017 @ 4:38 AM |
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Hi DJ....I have a '51 Custom too, and it does the same thing. When coming to a stop sign or a redlight, it freewheels too. I've been told by several people that it's normal to do that. Just have to be aware, and use the brake more. When not in overdrive, the car engine helps slow the car down as you might expect. Around town, I don't use the overdrive; I just use it out on an open road where there aren't as many reasons to have to slow down or stop. It just takes a little getting used to. I live in Indiana where there are plenty of long stretches of open road ahead. These cars were built back when the traffic was much less, and stops were few and far between. I had a '50 two door back in the fifties, and driving was much different then. Be aware and be careful with your '51.... they don't make 'em any more! BT
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| DJ | -- 04-09-2017 @ 5:29 AM |
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Hi Buckahoo, I sure will take care of the 51. It was my Dads so lots of good memories. Appreciate the feedback. i don't seem to have the option of disengaging the overdrive. It's always freewheeling. Are you pulling the handle to disengage?
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| carcrazy | -- 04-09-2017 @ 7:26 AM |
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The overdrive function will engage at speeds above about 27 MPH when the car is accelerating once you let up on the gas pedal. When the car is decelerating with the car in overdrive and the speed drops below about 21 MPH the car will go into freewheeling mode and there will be no engine braking.
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| Kens 36 | -- 04-09-2017 @ 11:12 AM |
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DJ, Your wiring should work. Yes, the solenoid should be metal-to-metal - no gasket. Let us know how your test drive went. Ken
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| BUCKAWHO | -- 04-09-2017 @ 2:47 PM |
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Hi again DJ....On my '51, When the handle is in, the car is 'IN' overdrive. When the handle is out, the car is "OUT OF" overdrive. I never change the handle position when moving, only when the car is stopped. I don't know if that is necessary, but that's how I use it. The owners manual isn't very clear on how to use that feature. You just need to get used to how it works, and drive accordingly. My coupe isn't a hotrod, and I don't drive 80 mph down the interstates. 55 is fast enough for me these days. BT
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| DJ | -- 04-09-2017 @ 5:01 PM |
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Well test drive did not go so well. I grounded the TH SW terminal. It ran really rough, had to stay on the gas, to keep it from dying. Did make it back to the house. I removed the ground wire and took it out and it ran good but of course no OD. Did a few more checks. I'm getting 6.3 volts at the battery; 6.3 volts at the IGN, TH SW, and fuse terminals on the relay. But I'm only getting 3 volts at the Solenoid and 3 volts at the governor. My OD test sheet says if I ground the governor wire, I should hear the relay click. It does not. I'm going to retrace my wiring, and ensure its right. Any suggestions how to get to the governor wire? As I mentioned, all other wiring is new. Is it just a normal flat head screw terminal? Can I or should I remove the governor for easier access to the wiring? Do those voltages point to a particular problem. I'm an amateur diagnostician; professional parts changer. Thanks so much!
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| Kens 36 | -- 04-09-2017 @ 7:45 PM |
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DJ, With the ignition on and the TH/SW terminal grounded, are you getting only 3 volts at the SOL terminal? If so, the problem is within the relay. I can walk you through disassembly and troubleshooting. Ken
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| deluxe40 | -- 04-10-2017 @ 10:42 AM |
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DJ, It sounds like your Solenoid is trying to engage when you ground the TH SW (Throttle Switch) terminal on the relay. Grounding that terminal causes the relay to provide power to both the "Solenoid Coil" which extends the pawl (plunger) to engage the overdrive and the "Holding Coil" which keeps the pawl extended while you are in overdrive. If the solenoid is stuck or it can't extend fully, the current will flow and your ammeter will show a discharge. (Perhaps that is why your car ran rough with the TH SW terminal grounded.) Once the pawl extends fully and engages the overdrive, a set of breaker points inside the solenoid opens, breaking the circuit through the Solenoid Coil to ground. The "Holding Coil" circuit remains in force, but doesn't cause a noticeable power drain. However, before you tear into the solenoid, you should make sure it is getting the full six volts. Disconnect the SOL wire (blue) to the solenoid from the relay and put your voltmeter on that terminal. Then ground the TH SW terminal and check the meter. It should read six volts, rather than the three volts you saw with the solenoid connected and trying to engage. If not, remove the relay and solder the terminals where they are riveted to the frame and try it again.
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| DJ | -- 04-10-2017 @ 7:40 PM |
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Success! I've got overdrive! I did not have it wired correctly. The wires were incorrect at the kick switch. Guess I was in too big a hurry. Figured out my mistake by tracing each wire and really studying where each wire needed to start and end. I can't really hear the "click" when it activates, but when I let off the gas and accelerate, she just hums! Like a singer sewing machine, right! My Dad tried for 5 years to get it going. Wish I had lived closer to help him get it done. Thank you all for the help. On to the next project....got some rust in fuel pump bowl. Not good. That's for another string!
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| Kens 36 | -- 04-11-2017 @ 6:28 AM |
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DJ, Congratulations! That overdrive makes a big difference. Good luck with your car. Ken
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