| mtelow | -- 03-18-2017 @ 11:28 AM |
|
I ordered the 33/34 book from the website but as I wait for it to arrive, can anyone tell me if the dash in a 1933 5 window deluxe should be wood grain or did they come painted Brown also? On a side note, should the spare have a cover over it or was that an option? The car I'm looking at is Black with Green wire wheels and matching Green pin stripping. Would that have been a standard color/trim in 1933? Thank You in advance...
|
|
| MG | -- 03-18-2017 @ 12:15 PM |
|
The dash in the Deluxe models should be wood grain. Black cars had a Vermilion (red) Pin Stripe and Aurora Red Wheels. Black wheels would be correct as well. The trim color on the car you are looking at (green stripe and green wheels) is not correct for a 1933 Deluxe. This from the EFV8 1933-34 Restoration Book.... This message was edited by MG on 3-18-17 @ 12:52 PM
|
|
| 3w2 | -- 03-18-2017 @ 8:36 PM |
|
The availability of apple green wheels on demand for much of the U.S. '33 model year is well documented in Ford's Archives. Whether or not the striping color was also apple green when the wheels were that color remains to be documented.
|
|
| mtelow | -- 03-19-2017 @ 5:13 AM |
|
Thank You to all for answering my questions. Can anyone venture a guess of a fair value on an older restoration but in excellent condition, 1933 5 window? It is all stock, mechanical brakes, and the only departure being a painted dash and trim and the questionable wheel color and pin stripping? Thank You. This message was edited by mtelow on 3-19-17 @ 5:15 AM
|
|
| trjford8 | -- 03-19-2017 @ 6:52 AM |
|
If you could post a photo of the car it would be helpful. The secret to buying an old Ford is doing a thorough inspection yourself and also having a someone familiar with old Fords with you for a second opinion. That second set of eyes will see things that you miss. Whatever you do , do not buy a car without a proper inspection. You want to buy a car with the best sheetmetal you can find. Check floor pans, fender beads, quarter panels, rocker panels under the doors, etc. Crawl around underneath, as what you see on top maybe a lot different than what you see on the bottom If all checks out good I would estimate the value at $35-38,000.
|
|
| mtelow | -- 03-19-2017 @ 8:15 AM |
|
Here is a picture
|
|
| mtelow | -- 03-19-2017 @ 8:16 AM |
|
Engine
|
|
| mtelow | -- 03-19-2017 @ 8:16 AM |
|
Dash
|
|
| mtelow | -- 03-19-2017 @ 8:17 AM |
|
Interior
|
|
| mtelow | -- 03-19-2017 @ 8:18 AM |
|
Undercarriage
|
|
| mtelow | -- 03-19-2017 @ 8:20 AM |
|
Undercarriage (2) Sorry about the separate postings. I'm not sure how to include all the pictures into a single post. Your thoughts and opinions on the condition and value of the car are greatly appreciated.... I'm not so sure its actually a deluxe model. It lacks the cigarette lighter and ashtray that I thought was standard in the upgrade from the standard model. Also the door trim is straight across and I thought the deluxe models angled down towards the center. That and the lack of arm rests. This message was edited by mtelow on 3-19-17 @ 4:03 PM
|
|
| 3w2 | -- 03-19-2017 @ 5:17 PM |
|
While it could be a deluxe where the dash was changed over to that of the standard model, it is far more likely originally a standard model where cowl lights were added (a legitimate dealer- installed accessory for standard models) and the windshield frame plated (not an especially believable dealer-installed upgrade.) Interestingly enough, the brown/gray color of the dash looks correct, at least for relatively early '33s. As for the wheel color, that car's wheels do not look to be the correct apple green (they are too green rather than a yellow green). If you are interested in authenticity, much in the engine compartment appears to be post-'33 such as the intake manifold, carburetor, fuel pump, and left side water pump. It does appear to be in very good overall condition.
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 03-20-2017 @ 4:54 AM |
|
While the car appears very nice! There are many items on the car that are not original to 33. If your looking for a very nice driver, super, you may have found it. If you want to show the car, there is a lot that has to be changed, including the engine. Does the vehicle serial number as stamped into the top of the frame near the steering box start with *I8- followed by 6 digits or 7 digits number & then a final *?? V8 cars have only 6 and 4 Cyl. cars have 7 all 4 Cyl. start with the number 5. The frame serial number should match the number on the vehicle title. So price would some what depend upon purpose. The car should have a 2 piece metal spare tire cover. This message was edited by 40 Coupe on 3-20-17 @ 4:56 AM
|
|
| trjford8 | -- 03-20-2017 @ 6:50 AM |
|
Looks like a very nice "driver quality" coupe. As others have said there are many items that would need to be changed to have a concourse car.
|
|
| len47merc | -- 03-20-2017 @ 6:58 AM |
|
All very good advice here. The car does appear to be in very good to excellent condition, and the work done to get it to this point appears to have been professional in execution, at least from what can be gleaned from the photos. Ultimately, if you can deal with the sure-to-come criticisms/observations of the originality inconsistencies, and you can validate the mechanicals are rock solid and sound, and lastly the bottom side thoroughly checks out as above reproach, then you do indeed appear to have a very nice driver. If all the originality variances/inconsistencies and what would appear to be to the novice/uninformed as period original ultimately gnaw at the base of your neck continuously and are always in the back of your mind then perhaps this car is not for you as you may never truly enjoy it. Regarding price the car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It appears on the 'surface' to be original but clearly from the input of others here it has been extensively 'modified', albeit at first blush very well. Recently a colleague of mine and I were looking for a '40 in excellent condition to use as a driver (spent a lot of time with kubes40 in the effort) and we found 2 options we thought worthy of looking at locally. The first was offered by the owner as 'fully original' at $39,000 and was a 'very nice' 30-40 footer. Once we got under it and performed a thorough examination there and mechanically it was found it was a cobbled together hodge-podge of multiple models (standards & deluxes) and vehicles that the owner was totally unaware of what he had purchased two years prior from a 'friend'. Wrong (though very nice rebuilt) motor, wrong dash, floor boards found to have been replaced, incorrect body panels, etc., etc.. The price is now down to less than $19K on the car, well below what he paid for it again only 2 years ago, and he still cannot sell it. The second was offered for a too-high $35K and is a beautiful 10-footer that was fully and professionally restored 10 years ago to very detailed original body, running gear and interior standards and could be shown as such, the lone exceptions overall being a Columbia OD, minor cam upgrade, very tastefully-done dual intake/carbs and well-hidden and installed electric fuel pump. The balance of the motor and compartment are to-original standards. Other than as noted here the engine compartment, interior, body and underside of the car are pristine, rock-solid and no departures from original or less-that-professional restoration could be found even after 3 multi-hour visits to examine and drive the car. This owner did not know entirely what he had either, other than he had a 'nice car' that he'd only put ~1,000 miles on in 10 years and purchased for $32K back then. We ultimately agreed to a price of just over $27K for a '...superior (aged) restoration...' to '...superior-to-excellent original standards...'. We later found that we missed a Mike Kubarth '40 at an auction here in Raleigh that we'd have paid the selling price for well north of the '40 that we did purchase. The point being made here is that if you want it for a driver, and it is THE car you have been looking for, and you may wish to show it at local cruise-ins and/or local shows/competitions that may likely not have the knowledge and expertise that national EFV8, AACA, etc., have and you accordingly may win awards for, then it appears you may have a nice option here. Price is worth what you are willing to pay for this 'luxury'. If you are purchasing this 'modified' car for an investment you need to be very knowledgeable of what the market may be for such non-original modifications and as well know that the market for our EFV8s has weakened over the past decade in favor of millenial-driven demand for '60's muscle. Just thoughts to hopefully help - I have to depend upon others on the pre-'40 models. Good luck - Steve
|
|
| 3w2 | -- 03-20-2017 @ 8:23 PM |
|
With respect, just because the engine has cast iron heads, a later water pump, and later intake manifold,etc., does not mean that the engine needs to be replaced, at least based on the photos provided, which among other things show a '33-'34 oil pan, not a later one. The components, sure, but not necessarily the engine itself. One other negative is that the color of the rumble seat upholstery is incorrect as it should be copra drab (a dark olive green color). This message was edited by 3w2 on 3-20-17 @ 8:25 PM
|
|
| mtelow | -- 03-21-2017 @ 6:38 AM |
|
Thank You to everyone who replied. The owner is asking 54K. I'm still trying to decide if I can live with just a driver, or wait and look for a more correct car that I can enter into some local shows. In its present condition, would 45K be a fair offer to buyer and seller?
|
|
| trjford8 | -- 03-21-2017 @ 7:21 AM |
|
In my humble opinion the seller is dreaming at $54,000. He'll be sitting on this one for a real long time. I would continue to look around if you want a more original car. I think you can probably find a better car for $45,000 if you are patient.
|
|
| len47merc | -- 03-21-2017 @ 7:48 AM |
|
mtelow - I'll let others more conversant in the '33s weigh in with their thoughts on the values you quoted. To perhaps help you with another angle - there are price 'guides' for collector & vintage cars that you can resource to help you with your decision. I will quote one here - that being the 2016 Collector Car Price Guide which gives 'ballpark' prices that fall within a reasonable range of each car's value to buyers and sellers. Some people swear by these guides, others loathe them - you'll have to be your own judge but know that a future buyer of your car may likely quote one or more of these in their negotiations. This guide grades cars in increasing quality from a low of 6 to a high of 1. Each step has a description - I will quote 3, 2 & 1 for you here: A car rating as a '3' is stated as 'VERY GOOD: Completely operable original or "older restoration" showing wear. Also, a good amateur restoration, all presentable and serviceable inside and out. Plus, combinations of well-done restoration and good operable components or a partially restored vehicle with all parts necessary to complete and/or valuable NOS parts'. A car rating as a '2' is stated as 'FINE: Well-restored, or a combination of superior restoration and excellent original. Also, an EXTREMELY well-maintained original showing very minimal wear'. A car rating as a '1' is stated as 'EXCELLENT: Restored to current maximum professional standards of quality in every area, or perfect original with components operating and appearing as new. A 95-plus (or in EFV8 terms 950-plus) point show vehicle that is not driven'. Now, given these three ratings, you make the decision as to where your car falls given the departures from original others have noted and then know that the Price Guide shows for a 1933 2D 5W Cpe the prices gleaned from sales, auctions and other pricing resources are $26,330 for a '3', $40,950 for a '2' and $58,500 for a '1'. If it can be called a Deluxe Coupe you can bump those figures up about 2% each. Again, there are other price guides out there that can help you with your purchase. Hope this helps - EDIT - from looking through additional pricing resources and integrating the observations of others herein, one would likely conclude trjford8's value range estimate from a couple of days back is pretty close to on the mark. Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 3-21-17 @ 8:28 AM
|
|
| mtelow | -- 03-21-2017 @ 4:44 PM |
|
A Big Thanks to all that have taken the time to reply. I forgot about the collector car price guide. I'll pick one up the next chance I get.
|
|
| len47merc | -- 03-21-2017 @ 5:44 PM |
|
Remember it's no more than a 'guide'. The best resources are still the 33/34 book plus a colleague & seasoned veteran's 2nd set of eyes and knowledge. You'll be able to hone in on whether it's a 2, 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 3, etc., with these two. Btw - when you get the book check out the fine, simple details in the book against the car, like, for instance, what color the head bolts should be for a car 'list-priced' as non-driven, Concourse grade 950+ point show car. It still looks like a very, very nice driver and may be worth the/a negotiated price to the right person, perhaps even you, if it meets your vision, needs and especially pocketbook. If an investment, given the market, again IMHO trjford8 is close to, if not on, the mark and if paying much more than that you'll likely struggle down the road to recapture your full original investment. Best of luck - Steve
|
|
| trjford8 | -- 03-22-2017 @ 7:33 AM |
|
mtelow, in addition to Steve's good advice check e-Bay. look at the "completed items" section. It will give you an idea of what has been bid on items when the auction ended. Again this can be used as a guide. Also take a look at this website; www.cars-on-line.com. Cars are listed by year and you'll see what is for sale and what has sold. It doesn't give the "sold" price, but you can get a pretty good idea of the market. This message was edited by trjford8 on 3-22-17 @ 7:35 AM
|
|
| supereal | -- 03-23-2017 @ 11:20 AM |
|
In addition to my friend Tom's advice, be sure that a valid, current title is being offered with any car. Even so, double check with the issuing agency to be sure it is real, and that no liens have been attached. I found that out the hard way many years ago when a title search turned up four liens after the sale, and it took months to run down the holders, any one of whom could have made a claim on the car if they were aware and demanded payment or possession of the vehicle. I was lucky, and will never consider a purchase based on the presumed owner without verification.
|
|
| mtelow | -- 03-23-2017 @ 3:24 PM |
|
All excellent points....Thank You.
|
|
| 1934 Ford | -- 03-25-2017 @ 5:46 PM |
|
metlow, Interesting thread. Welcome and good luck in your search. Please keep us posted as to what you end up with in the the Early V8 Ford World. Most of us think of them a fun and do our best to keep them as good as they can be, not an investment. I've paid for what I like and generally keep them long after the shock of the purchase price is lost to history. I agree with the advice you've received, but I know your desire will tell you in the end which car to buy. Keep us in the loop. 1934 Ford's since 1972
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=10602 |