| 39Fordfan | -- 04-01-2010 @ 3:35 PM |
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My '39 flathead won't start after trying it out for the first time this Spring. It has been in mothballs since last December. I kept a battery maintain charger on it all winter. I also sprayed Marvel Mystery Oil down the plug holes and into the carb. on occasion. Here is what I think I know about the situation... *I filled it up for the last time the first week of December 2009 with Non-Oxy gasoline and I added some Stabil and MMO to the tank. It was running great when I put her to bed. This gas isn't even 4 months old yet. *The starter turns good and at normal speed. It appears I've got good grounds to the battery and starter. The battery is fairly new and is good for dozens of starting tries. Though another issue that has been getting worse is that the starter "cuts out" after it turns the engine a few times. What do you think is causing this? *I have a decent blue spark on two of the plugs I tested. *The engine turns over faster like it wants to start when I spray Starter Fluid into the Carb. *It looks like one of the gaskets on the carb. or the power valve is beginning to fail as there is some fuel residue underneath the carb. *The plugs were black and sooty and full of gasoline after the first unsuccessful rounds of attempted starts. What do you think? Thanks! This message was edited by 39Fordfan on 4-1-10 @ 3:39 PM
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| 40guy | -- 04-01-2010 @ 7:43 PM |
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It sounds like to me the carb needs priming. Sometimes when the old flatheads sit a while it takes a long time to pull the fuel from the tank. this is assuming your fuel pump is good. I would pour about an ounce or two of gas in the carb and try it. Sometimes this may have to be repeated several times for success. Now I know I am going to be "stoned" for this because of safety concerns; but I have done this many times without nary a fire. Lucky? Maybe. Alot of people use the starting for this but I like gas. The car runs on gas not starting fluid.
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| Pauls39 | -- 04-01-2010 @ 8:04 PM |
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I agree with all the 40guy has mentioned. Your power valve may be leaking do to an improper fit with the gasket surface. The last V-8 Times had an article on removeing the step from the power valve surface to make it seal. Sooty plugs are an indication things are too rich. A leaking power valve might be the cause. It will also drain your carb if it sits for a period of time. I would also take the top off your fuel pump and give it a prime. Be sure to replace the gasket to get a good seal on the pump. Clean your plugs or replace them if they are old.
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| supereal | -- 04-02-2010 @ 6:58 AM |
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If the car won't start using a shot or two of starting fluid, it is likely that ignition is at fault. That is shown by the sooty plugs and the rapid cranking. As you mention that your starter "cuts out", I suspect you have a poor connection at one or both battery posts, or a faulty cable that is dropping much of the necessary voltage to start and run. This is often hidden corrosion where the cable meets the clamp, which can occur during storage. At 6 volts, it doesn't take much loss to prevent operation. Before you start tearing into the carb or other parts, find the cause or you will likely cover it up, making repair even more difficult.
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| TomO | -- 04-02-2010 @ 7:05 AM |
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I would try a new set of spark plugs. MMO has probably fouled your plugs, preventing the spark from getting to the fuel. MMO does not burn very well and should be used in small amounts in the combustion chamber. Tom
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| 39Fordfan | -- 04-02-2010 @ 3:24 PM |
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...A couple of more things. I have an electric fuel pump which has always been good for getting the carb primed. Though I will go ahead and prime it as you guys suggested. I put new battery cables on it only a season and 1/2 ago with a ground to the body for extra measure. Is it possible they would've gone bad this fast? The starter spins at normal speed. What I mean by the starter "cutting out" is to say it will continue to spin as long as I hold the starter button. But it seems to disengage after a few spins. Sometimes I have to turn it over a few times to get it to reengage. Am I in need of a new starter, or worse? The spark plugs are pretty black and sooty, so I'll get some new ones and try them out too. Thanks for all of the help! I'll keep you posted...
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| 40guy | -- 04-02-2010 @ 6:54 PM |
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It could be that you have a weak spring on the starter drive. I would take the starter off and have a look at the drive gear for a missing tooth/teeth. For the starter to 'cut out' as you say is not unusual, but to have to work with it to get it to engage could be a problem with the drive. If worse comes to worse the starter is not difficult to rebuild yourself.
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| supereal | -- 04-03-2010 @ 7:22 AM |
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If the starter drive is erratic, it may be that it has become gummed up with oil, not an unusual situation. All starter drives and starter motor shafts should be clean and dry when installed.
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| 39Fordfan | -- 04-03-2010 @ 1:59 PM |
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Thanks for all the help guys! I double checked all of my connections. I popped new plugs in it. I gave it a small prime and it started on the first turn. I think I over did the MMO down the plug holes and into the carb. this winter. I havn't had any trouble in past Spring starts but I squirted some MMO down the carb. this year. So on the issue with the starter, is there anything I should know before I take it off to inspect the drive?
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| 40guy | -- 04-03-2010 @ 4:58 PM |
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Unless you have a lift taking the starter off is a little awkward but not difficult. Don't forget about the tab that hangs from an oil pan bolt. The top starter bolt goes through it to hold up the starter. Glad to hear also that you got the car running.
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| supereal | -- 04-04-2010 @ 9:15 AM |
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The starter is heavier than you might expect, and usually slippery with an oil coating. Hold on tight as you remove it, and don't put your head below it!
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| TomO | -- 04-04-2010 @ 9:46 AM |
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To remove the starter you should disconnect the battery, disconnect the lead from the solenoid at the starter, remove the bolt from the oil pan that holds the bracket that supports the front of the starter and then loosen the 2 through bolts enough to disengage the bolts from the oil pan. I would work on the bolts alternately and jiggle the starter loose, so you can tell when the bolts are free of the oil pan. These bolts also hold the starter together. When you handle the starter, try not to separate the front plate from the case. If you have engine pans on your car, you may have to loosen them and move them out of the way of the starter. If the starter parts separate, you can get the commutator back under the brushes by pulling the brushes and springs back until the spring rests on the side of the brush. Then assemble the starter and push the brushes towards the commutator until the spring can exert pressure on the brush. Examine the starter drive for contamination. If there is none, you should replace the spring or the drive assembly. Tom
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