Topic: Working on a flathead on the floor

Steve S	-- 03-29-2010 @ 7:39 PM
	Lets say I need to pull the oil pan on my engine, but I don't have an engine stand. Can I just (carefully) tip it up on the flywheel? I want to pull the pistons to check the bearings and hone the cylinders.
47Fordor	-- 03-30-2010 @ 4:42 AM
	Are you asking "possible" or "advisable"? With clutch removed, you might be able to balance it on it's bell housing. Of course, since the back of the pan on a flathead v8 IS the bottom of the bell housing, you will play heck trying to get it off and, according to murphy's law, it will be as soon as the pan is removed that the engine will decide to go horizontal again and, at a minimum, crush your oil pick-up and strainer (and, if your luck is like mine, your foot). Harbor Freight has cheep engine stands for around $50. They can be disassembled when not needed and are much cheeper than the new parts and possible doctor bills (not to mention your sanity) if you don't use one. Chris
oldford2	-- 03-30-2010 @ 4:53 AM
	Since you are going to remove the pistons, the heads have to come off. Remove them first and the starter, generator, etc.. This will lighten the engine to a point that 2 or 3 guys can carefully lift it and gently set it on the flywheel. I would not roll it upright on the teeth of the flywheel. Remember that the engine will not be too stable so be careful working on it in this position. Sounds like you may get into some major work which will difficult to work on the engine without a stand. If you have an EFV8 club roster, check local members to see if you can borrow one. These guys are very helpful in helping others. John
37RAGTOPMAN	-- 03-30-2010 @ 6:26 AM
	I usually take the flywheel off, Use a few 2x4's under one side of the engine,[under exhaust ports,]this lifts it up about 4-6 inches, work on one side at a time,when done with the one side flip it over to the other side,, this way the engine will not fall over,on top of you. and you can use a few flywheel bolts with a bar to turn over the engine, on the engine stands, make sure you get a good one,,,,
trjford8	-- 03-30-2010 @ 7:31 AM
	I would not use a standard engine stand on the 48 and earlier motor with the cast bellhousing. There is a good chance of breaking the bellhousing. It's O.K. to use it on the later motor as the bell housing unbolts from the motor.
TomO	-- 03-30-2010 @ 7:46 AM
	If you are going to hone the cylinders, you should use an engine stand. Trying to do this with just a couple of 2x4 supporting the engine could cause serious injury to you or the block. Buy the Harbor Freight stand and the buy or make an adapter to support the engine using bolts in the exhaust manifold bolt holes. The adapter costs about $50 and is worth it when you want to do the valves. Several people have lost an engine buy supporting the engine by the bell housing. This usually happens when moving the engine, but can happen when working on it. The bell housing is not strong enough to support the weight of the engine. Tom
Steve S	-- 03-30-2010 @ 9:28 AM
	Thanks for the warnings. The heads and intake are already off (it came to me that way). Not knowing anything about this type of engine or vehicle, I pulled the engine alone, leaving the bell housing attached to the transmission. I planned to pull the clutch apart anyway just to check it and possibly replace. By the way, this is a '53 Merc CM engine if that makes a difference.
51f1	-- 03-30-2010 @ 1:12 PM
	With a '53, you can use a conventional engine stand connected to the bell housing bolt holes. These stands are cheap, and I recommend that you get one. Richard
BrianCT	-- 03-30-2010 @ 1:34 PM
	Before removing the pressure plate mark it and the flywheel so you can put it back in the same orientation, to maintain engine balance.
Steve S	-- 03-30-2010 @ 2:10 PM
	Thanks gents, I will pick up a stand this week. To make sure I'm doing this properly, and most importantly safely, let me just confirm that I need to remove the bell housing from transmission and bolt it back onto the engine, and then bolt the housing to the engine stand. Also that the bell housing is the piece still attached to the transmission in the attached photo? Any particular bolt holes safer / more stable than others to mount the stand to?
supereal	-- 03-30-2010 @ 2:36 PM
	The usual reason to hone cylinders is to install new rings. Doing this without full disassembly of the engine can result in contamination that is difficult or impossible to completely remove, and requires an accurate measurement of cylinder taper. Once the engine is out of the vehicle, it is time to address the condition of the valves and other components subject to wear, including the pistons. At our shop, we do honing for the DIY people, and hot tank the block afterward to insure particles are removed, even through our big honing machine does the work under an oil bath.
Steve S	-- 03-30-2010 @ 2:46 PM
	Well, my situation is that I don't have the money to rebuild this engine. The heads were removed, and there is sat in a garage for 30 years. I appears that the previous owner may have simply blown a head gasket, and when four head studs broke he just gave up. I don't know this, I'm only going off visual clues. So my plan is to lightly hone the bores, new rings, inspect bearings, rebuild fuel pump and carb, then slap everything together and cross my fingers that it will run. I normally don't cut corners on anything but money is really tight right now so I do it this way or I don't get to drive a Ford. I wish there were a more affordable way to rebuild the engine, but since I lack the necessary skills and knowledge, I'm stuck.
Stroker	-- 03-30-2010 @ 3:03 PM
	Steve: My humble advice is to get the engine up where you can properly work on it, as crawling around on the floor does not engender good working practices. You can trust any of the bolt holes on the back of your post 59A block. Use at least four that are as "spread-out" as possible, and don't re-attach the bell housing, as it only adds to the balance problem of hanging the weight of the engine farther from the engine stand. When you buy your engine stand, I'd suggest avoiding the 3-caster type, as they can be pretty unstable if you have to use any "leverage" on the engine to remove (or torque) fasteners. The 4-caster type, while slightly more costly, is much more stable. Ideally, I'd opt for the manifold-attachment type of adapter offered by some companies as Red's Heads, as they bring the block much closer to the attachment point, and will work on any flathead. The point is that you are contemplating some rather serious precision upgrades. Rule ONE is that "cleanliness is next to Godliness". Grubbing around on the floor is not conducive to Rule ONE. Brian was spot-on with his advice to make sure you don't screw-up the balance of the engine by changing the pressure plate/clutch assembly and flywheel in relation to it's originally installed position. "Get Her Up in the Air", under good lighting, and clean conditions, and you will be able to do a professional job.
Steve S	-- 03-30-2010 @ 3:30 PM
	Thanks, I've located a used 2000 pound stand locally. Six wheels spread out wide, so it should be stable. I haven't found any adapters for under $100 so I'll just have to use the rear holes, and perhaps wedge a 2x4 under the front of the lump just for peace of mind. Cleanliness will be as good as I can get it but there is definitely some debris in the valve area so I've sucked it out and wiped everything down as well as possible. My garage is extremely clean, perhaps too clean, so no worries there.
watwasithinking	-- 03-30-2010 @ 7:14 PM
	Steve, Slide it, kick it, roll it, cuss it....but do not use one of those flimsy modern engine stands that has the adjustable supports that mount to the bell housing....If you try rolling Big Bertha across the operating room and she tilts over....your engine stand will now be a bell housing stand. Trust me...you'll be saying my user name over and over if you make this mistake. KRW Tools made the best engine stands. They used the exhaust manifold attachment holes for mounting points, thus allowing for good balance and engine rotation.
Steve S	-- 03-30-2010 @ 8:22 PM
	Sounds good, but where do I find one?
supereal	-- 03-31-2010 @ 7:11 AM
	If you have the 8BA type engine with the removable clutch housing, it is safe to bolt the engine to a stand using the rear face. It is the earlier engines with the clutch housing cast into the block that can break and fall. I understand not having the resources to do a rebuild, but before you do much else, it is important to determine why the engine was removed and partially taken apart. More often than not, something serious happened to require removal, perhaps a crack in the block.
TomO	-- 03-31-2010 @ 7:57 AM
	The part that is attached to the transmission is an adapter plate, used to adapt the 49-53 engines to the Mercury and truck transmissions. Do not use the adapter plate to mount the engine to the stand. Your block will be safe mounted to a stand that uses the bolt holes in the back of the block. I am concerned about the grit from honing the cylinder walls getting on the bearing surfaces and in the oil passages. If you are determined to do the honing, potect the crankshaft and the valve chamber as best as you can and then clean everything when you are through. Tom
Steve S	-- 03-31-2010 @ 9:32 AM
	Well, I've done a thorough visual inspection and found no cracks so hopefully there is nothing hiding where I can't see it. The cylinders do need to be honed. This photo makes it look much worse than it actually is. It's very light surface rust really...
supereal	-- 03-31-2010 @ 11:36 AM
	Be sure to carefully inspect the inside walls of the block above the oil pan for cracks. Freezing oftens causes them there. The photo shows a well worn engine. Rather than pull the pistons and hone the block, I'd leave them in place and scour the cylinder walls to get out as much rust as possible out, then turn the engine over and flush the cylinders with solvent. Then, coat the cylinders with oil. That way, you won't contaminate the lower end of the engine with consequent bearing damage. Don't use ScotchBrite, however, those fibers will certainly kill the bearings if they get into the oil. As to attaching to an engine stand, I did intend to specify that the stand be bolted directly to the 8BA block, not the adapter. For the 59AB, the engine is mounted to an adapter using the exhaust manifold bolt holes.
Steve S	-- 03-31-2010 @ 9:41 PM
	The more I think about it and the more you guys teach me, the more I think I should put this engine to the side and grab another one. I located a complete running '53 8BA with 4-speed trans attached for a few hundred buckaroos. The guy says it has 2K miles on a rebuild but I guess eh didn't bother to paint anything when he did it. Maybe he just means rings and bearings. Even though the CM is a more powerful unit, I'm thinking that it's better to spend the same amount on a known good engine than to spend it on this one and have a chance that it has an unforeseen major problem. Over time, maybe I can learn to rebuild the CM on my own and by the time the 8BA is through running, I can put the CM back in.
supereal	-- 04-01-2010 @ 7:39 AM
	Good choice!

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